How many games will it take for you?

[MustangIcon]

Derek Williams- Success
Mo Faye- Success
Dia- Success

Those are the only 3 undisputed successes out of 10 that can currently be judged. I think Nyakundi and Haynes will go down as successes, but you can't make that call while they still have 2 years to go.

Depends on your definition of success. My definition is contributing on, or leading a team to, the NCAA tournament. So while some of the guys you mentioned had good "stats" while they were here, I wouldn't consider any of them being a success. Some chick has to be the best looking of all the uglies, and likewise someone had to score points, rebound, dish, etc. on one of the worst teams in the country.

I guess we have a different definition of an individual player's undisputed success then. By your definition, SMU hasn't had a player that was an undisputed success in what- 15+ years? Conference-mate Rice? They haven't had one in 40 years. I guess that means that guys like Ricky Pierce, Morriss Almond, or Mike Harriss wouldn't be considerd succeses? I understand the point you want to make, but you have done it in such an obtuse way that it devalues what you are trying to say and comes off as overly biased.

[PonyDoh]

Derek Williams- Success
Mo Faye- Success
Dia- Success

Those are the only 3 undisputed successes out of 10 that can currently be judged. I think Nyakundi and Haynes will go down as successes, but you can't make that call while they still have 2 years to go.

Depends on your definition of success. My definition is contributing on, or leading a team to, the NCAA tournament. So while some of the guys you mentioned had good "stats" while they were here, I wouldn't consider any of them being a success. Some chick has to be the best looking of all the uglies, and likewise someone had to score points, rebound, dish, etc. on one of the worst teams in the country.

we were 14-17, and middle of the pack in CUSA. please come in off the ledge.

[RE Tycoon]

I guess we have a different definition of an individual player's undisputed success then. By your definition, SMU hasn't had a player that was an undisputed success in what- 15+ years? Conference-mate Rice? They haven't had one in 40 years. I guess that means that guys like Ricky Pierce, Morriss Almond, or Mike Harriss wouldn't be considerd succeses? I understand the point you want to make, but you have done it in such an obtuse way that it devalues what you are trying to say and comes off as overly biased.

In sport you are either a success or a failure, there is no middle ground. It is measured by W's and L's.

[RE Tycoon]

we were 14-17, and middle of the pack in CUSA. please come in off the ledge.

Ha...thanks for the concern. I am far away from the ledge, just tired of the accepted mediocrity around this program.

[moodymadmen]

I guess we have a different definition of an individual player's undisputed success then. By your definition, SMU hasn't had a player that was an undisputed success in what- 15+ years? Conference-mate Rice? They haven't had one in 40 years. I guess that means that guys like Ricky Pierce, Morriss Almond, or Mike Harriss wouldn't be considerd succeses? I understand the point you want to make, but you have done it in such an obtuse way that it devalues what you are trying to say and comes off as overly biased.

In sport you are either a success or a failure, there is no middle ground. It is measured by W's and L's.

Thank you. You are either a Have or a Have Not...and SMU is clearly a Have Not and its not even debatable. 28 games under .500 overall, 30 games under .500 in CUSA, 0 CUSA tourney wins, the 100% overhaul of the original assistants, players fleeing the program with regularity now...it will be time to step back from the ledge when we have an iota of hope. And I'm afraid that wont' come until the program is under new direction.

[MustangIcon]

Thank you. You are either a Have or a Have Not...and SMU is clearly a Have Not and its not even debatable. 28 games under .500 overall, 30 games under .500 in CUSA, 0 CUSA tourney wins, the 100% overhaul of the original assistants, players fleeing the program with regularity now...it will be time to step back from the ledge when we have an iota of hope. And I'm afraid that wont' come until the program is under new direction.

The question here though, was not, if SMU is a have or have not. The question posed, by you I might add, is what players would be considerd an undisputed success. I answered that question. If we use RE Tycoon's criteria then we haven't had 1 successful player in 17 years so this conversation is moot anyhow.

[moodymadmen]

Thank you. You are either a Have or a Have Not...and SMU is clearly a Have Not and its not even debatable. 28 games under .500 overall, 30 games under .500 in CUSA, 0 CUSA tourney wins, the 100% overhaul of the original assistants, players fleeing the program with regularity now...it will be time to step back from the ledge when we have an iota of hope. And I'm afraid that wont' come until the program is under new direction.

The question here though, was not, if SMU is a have or have not. The question posed, by you I might add, is what players would be considerd an undisputed success. I answered that question. If we use RE Tycoon's criteria then we haven't had 1 successful player in 17 years so this conversation is moot anyhow.

Off all the players Doh has brought in, how many would be declared an undisputed success? 2? 3?

You cannot come close to properly answering this question until the players Doherty has recruited have either: 1.) completed their eligibility, or at very least have only 1 year left; or 2.) are no longer in the program.

6 players from the 2007 class can be judged now (Nuk has 2 seasons left). Transfers DWill and Faye. Otis and McCoy (Haynes still has 2 seasons left). So we can currently judge 10 players.

Derek Williams- Success
Mo Faye- Success
Dia- Success

Those are the only 3 undisputed successes out of 10 that can currently be judged. I think Nyakundi and Haynes will go down as successes, but you can't make that call while they still have 2 years to go.

And I agree with you for the most part...I feel Williams and Dia have been successful but I wouldn't go that far with Mo Faye...1 year barely in double digits (plus mediocre rebound and block #'s at 6'9 and a subpar FT%) does not make for an undisputed success in my mind. I also don't think it takes 3 years to determine that someone like Luttman won't be a success. Perhaps if we get lucky another guy will emerge onto the successful list. Still, over 4 years, 2 undisputed success stories and 1 or so borderline guys is still pretty depressing.

[ponyboy]

Let's say for hypothetical purposes you go into a five year rebuild. What's your record going to be going into year four or five?

Rebuilds are just that. Let's give Doh his last year and see if it was worth the wait before proclaiming this a disaster. If he pulls it out next year, let's all have a beer and laugh. If not, he gets canned and every hater is happy.

[MustangIcon]

And I agree with you for the most part...I feel Williams and Dia have been successful but I wouldn't go that far with Mo Faye...1 year barely in double digits (plus mediocre rebound and block #'s at 6'9 and a subpar FT%) does not make for an undisputed success in my mind.

Just for clarification. Faye averaged double digits in points and 5+ reb and shot 42% from the field over his 2 year career at SMU (50+ games) playing the wing, not the post. I wouldn't go so far to say he is all world by any means at all. But definitely a success or hit as compared to a failure or miss.

Even so, the point is- thus far we have not had too many misses and not enough hits under Doherty. That is pretty obvious.

[PonyDoh]

Let's say for hypothetical purposes you go into a five year rebuild. What's your record going to be going into year four or five?

Rebuilds are just that. Let's give Doh his last year and see if it was worth the wait before proclaiming this a disaster. If he pulls it out next year, let's all have a beer and laugh. If not, he gets canned and every hater is happy.

I would liked to have seen 16 or 17 wins last year, and far less roster turmoil, to feel 'ok' about this rebuild. I feel like we're a full year behind where we should be in a rebuild. Basically, the guy needs another 5-7 win improvement to guarantee he comes back, going into year 5 of this rebuild. That aint good, and sorta hard to visualize happening.

[moodymadmen]

Let's say for hypothetical purposes you go into a five year rebuild. What's your record going to be going into year four or five?

Rebuilds are just that. Let's give Doh his last year and see if it was worth the wait before proclaiming this a disaster. If he pulls it out next year, let's all have a beer and laugh. If not, he gets canned and every hater is happy.

I would liked to have seen 16 or 17 wins last year, and far less roster turmoil, to feel 'ok' about this rebuild. I feel like we're a full year behind where we should be in a rebuild. Basically, the guy needs another 5-7 win improvement to guarantee he comes back, going into year 5 of this rebuild. That aint good, and sorta hard to visualize happening.

Wow. That's the first thing you've said in a long time that I can agree with.

[PonyDoh]

Let's say for hypothetical purposes you go into a five year rebuild. What's your record going to be going into year four or five?

Rebuilds are just that. Let's give Doh his last year and see if it was worth the wait before proclaiming this a disaster. If he pulls it out next year, let's all have a beer and laugh. If not, he gets canned and every hater is happy.

I would liked to have seen 16 or 17 wins last year, and far less roster turmoil, to feel 'ok' about this rebuild. I feel like we're a full year behind where we should be in a rebuild. Basically, the guy needs another 5-7 win improvement to guarantee he comes back, going into year 5 of this rebuild. That aint good, and sorta hard to visualize happening.

Wow. That's the first thing you've said in a long time that I can agree with.

it's the same thing i've been saying forever. We aren't that bad, we aren't that good. Sky isn't falling, and the program is probably stable, performance-wise, for the near future, especially now that Leslee has his score. On the other hand, we aren't improving quickly enough, and frankly we should be better on paper heading into this upcoming year. It's all very mediocre right now, and the ceilings program is higher than that.

Problem is, people around here act like we're God awful, and won 2 games last year.

[Bergermeister]

Let's say for hypothetical purposes you go into a five year rebuild. What's your record going to be going into year four or five?

Rebuilds are just that. Let's give Doh his last year and see if it was worth the wait before proclaiming this a disaster. If he pulls it out next year, let's all have a beer and laugh. If not, he gets canned and every hater is happy.

I would liked to have seen 16 or 17 wins last year, and far less roster turmoil, to feel 'ok' about this rebuild. I feel like we're a full year behind where we should be in a rebuild. Basically, the guy needs another 5-7 win improvement to guarantee he comes back, going into year 5 of this rebuild. That aint good, and sorta hard to visualize happening.

Wow. That's the first thing you've said in a long time that I can agree with.

moodymadmen=ponydoh. These conversations, with yourself, crack me up.

[PonyDoh]

moodymadmen=ponydoh. These conversations, with yourself, crack me up.

ask the mods, I'm only me. I was once Mullet Mike during the Dement years & Ponybacker before that

[papawasamustang]

I just don't see this team being any good with 2 MAJOR weaknesses in the head coach & the lack
of scoring punch. Who's going to pick up the slack? Dia? Gotta have someone that can get him the ball.
I see 4 wins in conference & maybe 12 total depending
on how many Houston Baptists r on the schedule.