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Lunatics Running the Asylum

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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby gostangs » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:17 pm

How low should our standards be for athletes? Its simple - as low as the NCAA allows and especially as low as our competitors. If we strike a different standard then those against whom we compete - we will not win - and if we cant win, why even bother. I for one am happy Jones pushes the limit in this area and he needs to continue to insist on it.

And by the way there has been a different standard for athletes and other students in every major university in the country for something like 50 yrs now....its not exactly new.
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby Alaric » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:06 pm

gostangs wrote:How low should our standards be for athletes? Its simple - as low as the NCAA allows and especially as low as our competitors. If we strike a different standard then those against whom we compete - we will not win - and if we cant win, why even bother. I for one am happy Jones pushes the limit in this area and he needs to continue to insist on it.

And by the way there has been a different standard for athletes and other students in every major university in the country for something like 50 yrs now....its not exactly new.


bingo. If we can't go NCAA minimum, let's just play Austin College, Southwestern and St Eds in florified club football. Real student athletes will be able to play. Sounds exciting.
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby leopold » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:46 pm

Eh, our basic entrance requirements for our students aren't that bad. We should definitely be able to compete with the schools around us in football without having to lower those. It's the idea that a kid can get into the Ivy League but can't get into here just because he's a football player that bothers me.
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby gostangs » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:31 pm

if you think we can win admitting only those student athletes that would get in under our normal admittence requirements you know nothing about college football. No winning school in the country does that. The average grades and SAT scores for most of the best players are insanely low - Nobody needs to pretend otherwise. We wouldnt win an intermural game if we tried to field a team of players that were admitted under our normal admission standards.
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby leopold » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:02 am

No, it means I don't know d!ck about national admissions standards for athletes.
Fair enough.
But I admit I am willing it drop a couple of games if it means having actual students as athletes. And like I said, our athletes don't have to try to compete with the Ivies if the rest of the school isn't.
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby Nacho » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:36 am

we tried that model of admitting athletes using the same criteria as regular students.
you might want to look up our record for the last 20 years to see how that worked out.
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby Mestengo » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:41 am

Leopold Buy season tickets and come to a game. BTW how many did you make last year from NC.
My guess is zero!
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby EastStang » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:15 am

Hey guys, you have to find a middle ground which is I think what's been happening. Remember there is that pesky APR to worry about and if enough athletes are not making AP, then we could lose scholarships for that. So, if we go so low that guys are flunking out right and left we then have two problems: APR and loss of scholarships, and the fact that we are full of one and done freshman players who have not yet matured to really master JJ's offense or defense and we are having to plug holes. So, we have the 50/50 admission rule. They get admitted if the admissions committee thinks they have a 50% chance of graduating. That's a pretty low standard. For regular admissions its probably closer to 80-90%. And with that rule we were 8-5 last year. Under the old rule, we were last in the Country twice.
UNC better keep that Ram away from Peruna
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby Alaric » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:18 am

EastStang wrote:Hey guys, you have to find a middle ground which is I think what's been happening. Remember there is that pesky APR to worry about and if enough athletes are not making AP, then we could lose scholarships for that. So, if we go so low that guys are flunking out right and left we then have two problems: APR and loss of scholarships, and the fact that we are full of one and done freshman players who have not yet matured to really master JJ's offense or defense and we are having to plug holes. So, we have the 50/50 admission rule. They get admitted if the admissions committee thinks they have a 50% chance of graduating. That's a pretty low standard. For regular admissions its probably closer to 80-90%. And with that rule we were 8-5 last year. Under the old rule, we were last in the Country twice.


And, to be fair, it should be easier to attract better students, keeping athleticism easier, after we've won for a few years. Nonetheless, why shouldn't we do what most other schools do which is to accept minimum qualifiers and create pathways in which they can stay eligible? We're talking at most, probably 50 kids (more likely 25) that would need these special considerations...
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby Nacho » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:33 am

http://smu.edu/srk/Enrollment/enrollgradrate.asp

why should i have any trust in this bogus 50% projection based only on conjecture, when the admissions committee with their high standards for regular students is only aroune 70%? if they were any good at projections it should be closer to 90%.
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby jtstang » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:38 am

EastStang wrote:Hey guys, you have to find a middle ground which is I think what's been happening.

Why? Why can't we just say the NCAA standard is our standard?
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize.
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby ponydawg » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:39 am

Is there a list of ALL the schools that use the NCAA standard as their standard?
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby ponyboy » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:27 am

Stallion wrote:ponyboy I'm saying its pretty damn close and I don't know specifically about these 2 because nobody seems to want to tell us their profile. I also would prefer all qualifiers get in but its not an unreasonable decision to deny admission to students who score 500-600 SAT points below SMU's average. I'm not going to burn Dallas Hall down. And June Jones will put a team on the field with just as many academically marginal athletes on the field as just about anyone we play. He will continue to recruit the margins as he has proven these last two years. Most all of these recruits will get in except for the non-qualifiers. The talk about secret funds, firing Presidents and overthrowing the Board of Trustees is repulsive at a school which has suffered the harshest blow to its reputation because of the exact same dumb-[deleted] thought process. The Road to the Death Penalty started with the firing of SMU President Hardin in about 1972. Anyone comparing the present situation to Ken Pye's Death Penalty is truly crazy, hopelessly uninformed or too stupid to think for himself.


Those who continue to beat this horse into the ground need to read and reread this. And consider what your public postings might be potentially doing to your school's reputation during an enormously important time recruiting-wise. You are giving the Dallas Observer and other similar outlets reason to write a story that harms us.

This truly is a molehill that many on here continue to want to make into a mountain. For the good of your school and for the sake of simple common sense stop it.
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby NickSMU17 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:52 am

Aren't you the same guy that said JJ signed his extension...?

I don't have any desire to return to bennet/caven years...you may...and until JJ signs that extension and the admin clearly states they are going to help...I will be [deleted] all day long....

Nobody reads the observer anyway...and the school is looking bad on its own terrible decisions...
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Re: Lunatics Running the Asylum

Postby leopold » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:55 am

Mestengo wrote:Leopold Buy season tickets and come to a game. BTW how many did you make last year from NC.
My guess is zero!


Sorry to play the Army card, but I just can't pick up and leave and go halfway across the country when I'd like to for months at a time - there's a reason the 82nd gets was in Haiti 18 hours after a damn earthquake. I am hopefull that I will get a chance this year, I've already told the Major I report to that I am going to try to go to Texas. That, and SMU plays at ECU this year.
But I went to plenty of home games every year when I was out of school and living in Texas, including that damn 0-12 season and career opener for Phil Bennett when I had to sit around a bunch of dumba$$ Navy guys, so deal with it - I had to.

Nacho wrote:we tried that model of admitting athletes using the same criteria as regular students.
you might want to look up our record for the last 20 years to see how that worked out.


Again, I don't know exactly what our model was except for turning everyone down - the school didn't seem to have that problem for our average student. This seems to be what alot of this debate is centered around. I am genuinely interested in anyone who can provide actual numbers to help us get grounded. But minimum requirements are not the same thing as a competitive curve where students have to compete against each other. Does anyone have anything solid to offer outside of "this sucks?"
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