POLL: Level Playing Field........Or, Not?

[ponyscott]

Enough.....I am upset as anybody on this and we all appreciate all the letters to Turner ( I sent a few) as raising awareness about the SMU NCAA Qualifiers acceptance is good. But really, where do you put the kids that are marginal at SMU? .....You just can't hide the marginal kids in a PE major situation like the State schools, as we don't have one...SMU is a small private school with good academics, and unfortunatally with the more applications we get BECAUSE of the publicity generated by the successful Football team, the standards get raised!!!
Some of the grade point averages needed to get into some of the schools at SMU like Cox Business School and the Kineselogy program ( which is now a 'fair haired' child of the TOTAL student body, instead of just athletic types) are full now and require crazy GPA"s to get in.
I think Turner has been called out on the carpet and hopefully we get attention paid to the particulars and it all works out, but damn lets not cry too much.
I love the enthusiasm, but Turner, Ford and Sewell are well aware of the situation...and THAT is where the money is folks.

Thats all is want to say.

[Topper]

Its pretty pretentious for us to deny admission to players who could easily be admitted to schools with higher academic standards than SMU. If we are going to play Division 1 ball we should admit NCAA qualifiers. If we dont want to play that game, then we need to turn football into a club sport and play Trinity and Sewanee. NCAA football scholarships give a lot of marginal students an opportunity to get a degree if they want to earn it. We should do everything we can to help them succeed academically, but we shouldnt create a facade of academic purity if we are going to try to compete with the big boys.

[ponyscott]

Its pretty pretentious for us to deny admission to players who could easily be admitted to schools with higher academic standards than SMU. If we are going to play Division 1 ball we should admit NCAA qualifiers. If we dont want to play that game, then we need to turn football into a club sport and play Trinity and Sewanee. NCAA football scholarships give a lot of marginal students an opportunity to get a degree if they want to earn it. We should do everything we can to help them succeed academically, but we shouldnt create a facade of academic purity if we are going to try to compete with the big boys.

Sorry Topper....the sky isn't falling. Stop with the Trinity and Sewanee comps as weill never be like that and aren't heading that way either....its good to have checks and balances, but we aren't creating a 'facade of academic purity'.

[Topper]

Its pretty pretentious for us to deny admission to players who could easily be admitted to schools with higher academic standards than SMU. If we are going to play Division 1 ball we should admit NCAA qualifiers. If we dont want to play that game, then we need to turn football into a club sport and play Trinity and Sewanee. NCAA football scholarships give a lot of marginal students an opportunity to get a degree if they want to earn it. We should do everything we can to help them succeed academically, but we shouldnt create a facade of academic purity if we are going to try to compete with the big boys.

Sorry Topper....the sky isn't falling. Stop with the Trinity and Sewanee comps as weill never be like that and aren't heading that way either....its good to have checks and balances, but we aren't creating a 'facade of academic purity'.

I didnt say we were headed the way of Trinity or Sewanee. I said that if we don't want to compete with the big boys that we SHOULD head that way. The reality of SMU's situation is that we are not going to compete successfully on a consistent basis if our athletic admission standards are stricter than schools that are better than us academically. Either we compete or we don't.

[VarsityShop]

As of right now 44% have responded to this poll by answering they would be ok with something less than a "level playing field". Pretty amazing.

[mr. pony]

As of right now 44% have responded to this poll by answering they would be ok with something less than a "level playing field". Pretty amazing.

Pretty sad.

[ponyboy]

Its pretty pretentious for us to deny admission to players who could easily be admitted to schools with higher academic standards than SMU.

Sorry, but can I get a recent example of this? I do not recall an instance. Thanks.

[Topper]

SMU football graduation rate: 82%
UT football graduation rate: 42%

I have degrees from both schools, and I can tell you that while UT has higher admission standards than SMU, the academic standards for their football players are nothing to those required by SMU. I don't know if this is still the case, but in the 90s UT admitted numerous students who otherwise didnt quailify under the guise of the Americans with Disabilities Act based on the fact that they were diagnosed as havinglearning disabilities. This sounds ridiculous, of course, but most of them were scholarship athletes on the football or basketball team. I have lived in Austin 20 years, and the only thing I remember UT players having academic ineligibility problems are players the coaches wanted to get rid of. Before I am accused of wanting SMU to sink to the level of UT, let me say OF COURSE NOT. But the question is do we want to compete with the likes of UT when they operate under such lax rules and we dont?

[Stallion]

Texas was the Big 12 school that insisted on severely restricting non-qualifiers. All schools that receive federal funding have to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act. SAT can be taken with accomodations under the Act. Texas has signed only one recruit in 5 years who was not admitted to the school and he had a 67 on the ACT which corresponds to an 810 on the SAT which is much higher than a boatload of recruits June Jones is signing. June Jones has signed 10-12 non-qualifiers in 2 years. SMU and UT had the exact same APR as Texas last year. You guys can regurgitate this crap all you want but UT does not have low admission standards. PERIOD. June Jones would quit tommorrow if he had to live with their standards for football players.

[NickSMU17]

No he wouldn't because he would have his choice of the top recruits in the country, and when there was a question mark with the number 2 cb in the country, he could simply go and recruit the #3 cb....

Stop comparing this to texas...

[Topper]

Yes, schools have to comply with the ADA but why were all of the quota football and basketball players?

And yes, we should compare ourselves to UT because we want to compete with teams like UT. Otherwise, and I re-state my original point, why compete in Division 1 if we don't aspire to a national championship?

[San Antonio Mustang]

Topper, your points are well taken, except you do not address the issue of remaining eligible. SMU or UT or whomever have to try to make sure the student athlete can remain eligible at their school. If University X has an English course where an athlete can make a 100 without doing anything then it doesn't matter whether he can read or not. It doesn't matter what his high school GPA or his SAT scores are. Each school has to adjust it's admission policy to reflect what the school requires of it's students. So comparing SMU to UT, TCU, Baylor, Tech, or Rice may be helpful, but is not the end or the analysis. SMU has to determine what are the minimums that will allow the student to at least remain eligible given the academic support and requirements of SMU.

We should be demanding more academic support, so that the marginal students will remain eligible and then perhaps we will find we can even lower our admission standards.

[cutter]

As of right now 44% have responded to this poll by answering they would be ok with something less than a "level playing field". Pretty amazing.

Exactly.

I don't know if this is still the case, but in the 90s UT admitted numerous students who otherwise didn't qualify under the guise of the Americans with Disabilities Act based on the fact that they were diagnosed as having learning disabilities. This sounds ridiculous, of course, but most of them were scholarship athletes on the football or basketball team.

Texas has signed only one recruit in 5 years who was not admitted to the school ..... UT does not have low admission standards. PERIOD.

Topper seems to be saying that Texas utilized avenues to accommodate academically marginal athletes in the distant past. Stallion is referencing data from the recent past.
Did Texas, perhaps, skirt the margins of player eligibility 15-20 years ago in order to eventually climb to the top of the heap, such that they can now be as selective as they want to be?

[Topper]

Topper, your points are well taken, except you do not address the issue of remaining eligible. SMU or UT or whomever have to try to make sure the student athlete can remain eligible at their school. If University X has an English course where an athlete can make a 100 without doing anything then it doesn't matter whether he can read or not. It doesn't matter what his high school GPA or his SAT scores are. Each school has to adjust it's admission policy to reflect what the school requires of it's students. So comparing SMU to UT, TCU, Baylor, Tech, or Rice may be helpful, but is not the end or the analysis. SMU has to determine what are the minimums that will allow the student to at least remain eligible given the academic support and requirements of SMU.

We should be demanding more academic support, so that the marginal students will remain eligible and then perhaps we will find we can even lower our admission standards.

Your comment is on the nose. Absolutely our PRIMARY mission should be to see that these young guys have every opportunity available to be successful academically. My concern is that there is a longstanding feeling among some faculty who gained power when the DP came down that at best we should become another Rice. My personal opinion is that Rice will never compete for a national championship as things stand. Water seeks its own level and I am concerned that current actions on the part of the administration put us in a deeper pool than we can handle.

[Topper]

As of right now 44% have responded to this poll by answering they would be ok with something less than a "level playing field". Pretty amazing.

Exactly.

I don't know if this is still the case, but in the 90s UT admitted numerous students who otherwise didn't qualify under the guise of the Americans with Disabilities Act based on the fact that they were diagnosed as having learning disabilities. This sounds ridiculous, of course, but most of them were scholarship athletes on the football or basketball team.

Texas has signed only one recruit in 5 years who was not admitted to the school ..... UT does not have low admission standards. PERIOD.

Topper seems to be saying that Texas utilized avenues to accommodate academically marginal athletes in the distant past. Stallion is referencing data from the recent past.
Did Texas, perhaps, skirt the margins of player eligibility 15-20 years ago in order to eventually climb to the top of the heap, such that they can now be as selective as they want to be?

Thank you. I am also trying to point out that UT apologists should realize that their players are failing at more than a 50% rate even though they have majors that are substantially less demanding than majors available to SMU players. This tells me a great deal about these recruits and their academcic background.