SMU has narrowed it down to two coaches

ponydawg · Post by **ponydawg** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:01 pm

The one thing that worries me is if Tubbs can really coach. I want a guy who really knows X's and O's. I am not a fan that the OU coach sent Tubbs to recruit rather than keep him there to help coach and win the NIT. And the one thing that worries me about Norm is that he would bolt soon after we made it to the dance. But man, what I would give to make it into March Madness! It has been way way to long!

EastStang · Post by **EastStang** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:10 pm

On the other hand, if Roberts got us to the dance and wanted to leave, it is much easier to recruit after a dance year, and presumably he'd be getting a multi-year contract here, so he'd have to buy out of such a contract if he wanted to leave. Then theoretically, Tubbs could be available. Its a tough call. I will trust the Committee to determine which is the best candidate and I'm sure one of their criteria is how long or short we have to sign this guy for? If dollars were close and if Roberts wanted a three year deal and Tubbs wanted a three year deal, I'd take Tubbs. If Roberts wanted a five year deal and Tubbs a five year deal, I'd take Roberts. If Roberts wanted five years and Tubbs, three years, it would be a toss-up. If Roberts wanted a three year deal and Tubbs a five year deal, it would be a toss-up or look elsewhere.

OldPony · Post by **OldPony** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:37 pm

Roberts has certainly worked for better coaches than Tubbs has and has seen how to build programs. I also think he can get more promises from the admin. He can recruit. Yes- it is easier to recruit to Illinois or KU, however, the level of talent you are expected to get rises exponentially also. Not one SMU player for the past 15 years was offered by KU-not even BHop. That gives you an idea of the caliber they go after. BHop would have been recruited by Illinois I think had he not made it fairly clear that he wanted to stay in the area. Illinois, though, probably would not have offered him 2 scholarships. That was a package that was hard for a family to turn down. Usually, we won't be able to play that game so I'm not sure how much credit Tubbs gets for that one. Maybe a lot- maybe not.
It is difficult to tell which would be a better recruiter. I think it may be the one who can get the facilities upgraded brecause newer facilities might recruit as well as any new coach.
The story about Tubbs being sent on a recruiting mission while the team was playing implies to me that he wasn't needed as a coach. That bothers me a lot. Maybe Sampson didn't care about the NIT but if that's true-why accept?
I think the committee has a lot to consider. This is not a no-brainer. I am pleasantly surprised that Roberts is interested. Until then, I thought JT would be the best choice. Now the decision is tough.

ponydawg · Post by **ponydawg** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:41 pm

I think both have their pro's and cons. I will be happy with either coach and will continue to support the program whoever ends up getting the Job.

BigEasyPony · Post by **BigEasyPony** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:50 pm

My choice would have been (1) Wojick, (2) Roberts, (3) Tubbs. One of the big things that I look for in a HC is presence. There are many coaches you meet that have a certain presence to them that can command a room. I favor any candidate who has that. I've seen an interview with Wojick and IMO he definitely had it and in my brief experience with Tubbs he lacked it. That doesn't mean that Wojick will turn out to be a great HC and that Tubbs won't, it is just something that I look for in a candidate.

The other thing was that I knew an assistant coach, who was a great recruiter (trust me, he got 2 Parade All Americans to go to an inner city school that was a graveyard) and great high school coach (3 state championships) who happened to be from my hometown was given a shot at being the HC at this local university and he was a huge disappointment. My feeling is that schools more often than not make mistakes by staying inside the family and I just felt Tubbs was too close.

I feel SMU needs an injection of new energy and enthusiasm and that's why I favored two (2) other candidates over him. I also know that if Tubbs gets the job and is successful he'll stay longer than anyone else. Whomever gets the job I wish him the best.

Also, I think Roberts recruited some decent players to Tulsa and Oral Roberts so that should indicate he is capable of recruiting.

BigEasyPony · Post by **BigEasyPony** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:55 pm

Since Tubb is 55 his window for becoming a HC is not long so anyone's hope that Tubbs could be hired at some point in the future is probably not realistic.

jtstang · Post by **jtstang** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:06 pm

OldPony wrote:Roberts has certainly worked for better coaches than Tubbs has and has seen how to build programs. I also think he can get more promises from the admin. He can recruit. Yes- it is easier to recruit to Illinois or KU, however, the level of talent you are expected to get rises exponentially also. Not one SMU player for the past 15 years was offered by KU-not even BHop. That gives you an idea of the caliber they go after. BHop would have been recruited by Illinois I think had he not made it fairly clear that he wanted to stay in the area. Illinois, though, probably would not have offered him 2 scholarships. That was a package that was hard for a family to turn down. Usually, we won't be able to play that game so I'm not sure how much credit Tubbs gets for that one. Maybe a lot- maybe not.
It is difficult to tell which would be a better recruiter. I think it may be the one who can get the facilities upgraded brecause newer facilities might recruit as well as any new coach.
The story about Tubbs being sent on a recruiting mission while the team was playing implies to me that he wasn't needed as a coach. That bothers me a lot. Maybe Sampson didn't care about the NIT but if that's true-why accept?
I think the committee has a lot to consider. This is not a no-brainer. I am pleasantly surprised that Roberts is interested. Until then, I thought JT would be the best choice. Now the decision is tough.

Again, this would only be stepping stone for me--better to offer the job to one of the other candidates.

OldPony · Post by **OldPony** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:06 pm

Damn JT. I thought you would be a lifer.

Red Man · Post by **Red Man** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:03 pm

Perhaps the people who are Tubbs proponents can help clear something up. Tubbs was the assistant coach at SMU for a decade, and at least during the latter half of his tenure here we repeatedly complained about SMU's inability to motivate their players, develop their skills to the fullest, and in general to get the most out of the talent on hand. Why doesn't the assistant bear some of the responsibility in these failings? Wasn't Tubbs in part responsible for motivation and player development? If not, why did Dement not entrust some of these tasks with him? If so, why will he succeed now while in the past he failed?

I am not anti-Tubbs, it's just that nearly all of his college coaching resume comes from our consistently disappointing team. Perhaps someone could enlighten me on the assistant coach's responsibilities.

Finally, I don't put any stock in his high school won-loss record. It doesn't prove that he "knows how to win" any more than our football recruits who came from successful high school teams have shown they know how to win (if they ever did know, they sure as hell forgot last season).

Mike Damone · Post by **Mike Damone** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:34 pm

Red Man, that is my concern as well. And what happens when all these top recruits in the Dallas area decide that Tubbs and SMU are great and all, but they still want to go to the Top 10 programs. What are we left with then?

gostangs · Post by **gostangs** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:40 pm

The "gee if they win they are out of here" thing always confuses me. In any other business you want the quality people that everyone else is dying to get - if they will not be tempted later I don't want them now. By the way - either of them will leave in a heartbeat if someone wants to pay them more money - which is what the bigger programs represent. Our hope is that our program improves fast enough to represent more money through a renegotiation later.

Hire whoever can fix the program. They are both good recruiters - I think that means we choose the best coach - that looks like Roberts to me, but I ain't no expert.

LA_Mustang · Post by **LA_Mustang** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:19 pm

Why do you feel that Roberts would be the better coach? I still have no idea why some on this board feel that Tubbs is inferior to the other candidates when it comes to coaching ability.

FloridaMustang · Post by **FloridaMustang** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:22 pm

Tubbs stinks. I wouldn't mind being a stepping stone. Those are the kinds of coaches we need here! Hot, up and comers! ROBERTS!!!

Sure would be easier to recruit and hire a more high profile coach with the success Roberts could bring. Tubbs had his chance as an assistant. Yeah, Dement and Sampson are both awful HCs... Bill Self is a legend.

LA_Mustang · Post by **LA_Mustang** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:46 pm

btw, I just read where Roberts went 24-84 in five years as HC at D-II Queens College. Now I feel silly wondering why you guys tought he is a more capable "coach" than Tubbs.

I'm not trying to bag on Roberts (he is my second choice after Tubbs) but a few of you are acting like he is a sure thing. Why is that?

PlanoStang · Post by **PlanoStang** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:03 am

Red Man wrote:Perhaps the people who are Tubbs proponents can help clear something up. Tubbs was the assistant coach at SMU for a decade, and at least during the latter half of his tenure here we repeatedly complained about SMU's inability to motivate their players, develop their skills to the fullest, and in general to get the most out of the talent on hand. Why doesn't the assistant bear some of the responsibility in these failings? Wasn't Tubbs in part responsible for motivation and player development? If not, why did Dement not entrust some of these tasks with him? If so, why will he succeed now while in the past he failed?

I am not anti-Tubbs, it's just that nearly all of his college coaching resume comes from our consistently disappointing team. Perhaps someone could enlighten me on the assistant coach's responsibilities.

Finally, I don't put any stock in his high school won-loss record. It doesn't prove that he "knows how to win" any more than our football recruits who came from successful high school teams have shown they know how to win (if they ever did know, they sure as hell forgot last season).

If you're NOT THE BOSS, then you do as the BOSS wants. YOU want to tell a CONTROL FREAK like some of you have described Dement that he's
all wrong?

"Perhaps someone could enlighten me on the assistant coach's responsibilities."

I haven't much of an idea what an assistant coach for a Div IA BB team does except coach technique, etc., but I'm 99.9% sure its what the head coach tells you to do.

"I am not anti-Tubbs"

Nope, you're anti somethin else, and maybe wanting the one of the other candidates Copeland might have in reserve to be named. That's if one of the 2 he presented aren't approved.

"Finally, I don't put any stock in his high school won-loss record."

I guess winning a state championship is a NO-BRAINER to you?

SMU has narrowed it down to two coaches

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