The Bishops' report...in case anyone's interested

[jtstang]

You didn't answer my question, and I have not commented one time on the subject, b/c I wasn't around at the time...

However it is my contention that everyone does this still and my guess is that the Admins know about it more than you think but there is plausable deniability...

And you didn't answer my question @sshole:

Name one school who had the freaking state governor lying to the NCAA for it and then turning around and blessing the payments at the same time he was telling the university president to shut the [deleted] up.

And mind you, all this came out within a couple of weeks of his re-election. He f-cking threw SMU under the bus and all you idiots are willing to forgive him because he threw enough cash at SMU once to get his family name on a building.

[CalallenStang]

JT, with all due respect, what difference does it make that Clements was state governor? Would his actions be any less indefensible if he was, say, Mayor of Bedford? CEO of Mobil Oil? Founder of Colonial Bank?

Not trying to argue, just trying to get a definitive answer on why it matters that he was state governor.

[Nacho]

were governors involved in alabama, california, lousiana,nebraska, florida ect? who knows? maybe. a lot of things go on in government that we can only guess at. clements got caught and deservedly so. that doesn't mean others were not involved. seems naive to me to think that only the texas governor was the only one in history to be involved.
d 1 football is corrupt to the max. the ncaa's handling of the cam newton fiasco again shows how corrupt they are. they were willing to do anything to keep tcu out of the nc game and did.

[Treadway21]

JT, with all due respect, what difference does it make that Clements was state governor? Would his actions be any less indefensible if he was, say, Mayor of Bedford? CEO of Mobil Oil? Founder of Colonial Bank?

Not trying to argue, just trying to get a definitive answer on why it matters that he was state governor.

JT would not have thought it so bad if it had been a dem gov.

[Stallion]

Big Difference at A&M-first it was 1 or was it 2 probations-I can remember the Kevin Murray(280Z incident) and the George Smith (Federal Express incident). Anybody around at that time that watched the Texas/A&M game a few days after the George Smith incident (I was there) knows that Texas A&m fired Jackie Sherrill. A&M was humiliated in front of the entire nation because there were about 30,000 Texas Fans with Federal Express envelopes and signs asking "Jackie please send Cash". Sherrill was "bought out" by A&M and was allowed to walk but there is no doubt he was fired. Firing the head coach who was involved in cheating is the definition of "Institutional Control"-so it was not like SMU. A&M did get 2 years probation. SMU didn't get the Death Penalty after their first or second probation in 10 years-SMU got the Death Penalty after their 5th Probation in the 10 years. Again the situation is not comparable to SMU. After SMU's second consecutive probation SMU got a probation similiar to the probation A&M got after the Kevin Murray/George Smith incidents-now that is comparable. You guys keep focusing on "Everybody Cheats" but that's NOT WHY SMU GOT THE DEATH PENALTY. (BTW I have consistently cited those probations by all other Southwest schools other than Rice. I know better than most that everybody was cheating. BUT THAT"S NOT THE POINT)

[Stallion]

The importance of Clements was that he was Head of the Board of Govenors who happened to be a state govenor. Now at a state school if someone could actually prove that with -you know-EVIDENCE then I suppose that would be significant factual evidence of Lack of Institutional Control since he would be Chief Executive Officer. But SMU is private making Bill Clements-Chief Executive Officer of the Institution that was required to institute control over the university. Open and Shut Slam Dunk case under NCAA Rules that the NCAA proved all elements under the NCAA Rulebook allowing them impose the Death Penalty.

[ALEX LIFESON]

Ah yi yi, everyone please just fall on their sword.

[RGV Pony]

The importance of Clements was that he was Head of the Board of Govenors who happened to be a state govenor. Now at a state school if someone could actually prove that with -you know-EVIDENCE then I suppose that would be significant factual evidence of Lack of Institutional Control since he would be Chief Executive Officer. But SMU is private making Bill Clements-Chief Executive Officer of the Institution that was required to institute control over the university. Open and Shut Slam Dunk case under NCAA Rules that the NCAA proved all elements under the NCAA Rulebook allowing them impose the Death Penalty.

proving that Stallion, once again, always gets his man.

Mexmustang has firsthand knowledge, which he cited in his prior post, of what went on at A&M. You'll cry foul, but I'm afraid you, Stallion, arent the only one allowed to pound your chest and cite what YOU know.

[ALEX LIFESON]

proving that Stallion, once again, always gets his man.

Mexmustang has firsthand knowledge, which he cited in his prior post, of what went on at A&M. You'll cry foul, but I'm afraid you, Stallion, arent the only one allowed to pound your chest and cite what YOU know.[/quote]

Maybe so, but no one pounds his own chest as much.

[BIGHORSE]

Stallion would have loved to been Dale Hansen back in 1987!!!

[PoconoPony]

Although I was not close enough to the situation to have been intimately involved I remember friend football players fully discussing with me major recruiting violations of offers made to them by other SWC schools. This was the SMU recruiting class of 1963 wherein at least 12 major NCAA violations regarding offers they had received at other SWC schools were reported by SMU to the SWC and NCAA. These violations inclueded: actual cash payments, offers of scholarships to girlfriends and siblings, cars, jobs for parents ....etc. Hayden Frye in his first year duly reported the problems. Result was that SMU got hit with sanctions and probation in 1964 by the conference because Frye did not play by the rules. The entire SWC ( except Rice ) were all cheating and anyone who squeeled got smacked. The SMU sanction was for improperly giving SMU logo car rings, logo pens and similar drivel to recruits. Investigation was not initiated on the other SWC schools based on the statements provided by the SMU players. Everything mysteriously got swept under the rug.

[planoponyfan]

Clements has done a lot of damage to this school. He was instrumental in forcing President Bush to put his library here too. Don't get me wrong, I like GWB, I just think SMU has too small a space for a library like this. But that's another story for another day.. just more reason to not like what he did to our school.

So why exactly has SMU kept Clements name on Clements hall all these years? I know he paid for it and that was part of the deal, but there's got to be a point where that goodwill is worn out and the school can change it. Can't imagine we'd keep a Bernie Madoff hall if we had one. Just sayin'

[jtstang]

JT, with all due respect, what difference does it make that Clements was state governor? Would his actions be any less indefensible if he was, say, Mayor of Bedford? CEO of Mobil Oil? Founder of Colonial Bank?

Not trying to argue, just trying to get a definitive answer on why it matters that he was state governor.

Because the reason the payments continued after he told the NCAA they'd be stopped (i.e., payroll to meet) was so he could be re-elected. That a "dropout" can tell the administration of the university to shut up and leave athletics to me and continue illegal payments so a 19 year old kid won't blow the whistle and ruin his political career has to be the textbook definition of lack of institutional control. Couple that with the mulitple violations that he had his hand in, and there you have the governor getting the school the death penalty.

The mayor of Bedford, had he done it, would be no less reprehesible, but the mayor of Bedford has much less to lose than the governor, so maybe he doesn't do it.....

[stc9]

My 2 cents... Alabama and maybe USC avoided the death penalty because the administration stood up and sacrificed everyone else. They actively cooperated with the NCAA. From Thad's film - loved it - when in doubt we lied or stone walled. We misbehaved, but never showed any contrition. The others since then opened up and showed contrition for their acts, offered up a couple of sacrificial lambs. We had the Governor of the State lying to the NCAA. Their administration at least seemed "shocked" and wanted the behavoir corrected. We didn't - we kept meeting the payroll.

I wonder what would have happened if Clements or another offical outside of the athletic department called the team together and told them, "This is over. I don't care what was promised to anyone. We are going to run a squeaky clean program. If you don't like it, feel free to transfer." If nothing else it is interesting to speculate.

[Stallion]

Of course, that is exactly what happened at TCU. Wacker found out-called for a team meeting and demanded to know who had taken payments, They were immediately thrown off team-but the program survived a very messy cheating scandal involving at minimum $48,000 or so and 6-7 players