Worst starts by new head coaches?

[SoCal_Pony]

I personally do not feel flogging the SMU system is beating a dead horse.

We should be reminded of it CONSTANTLY until there is a level playing field with our once peers.

I will however take a stab at your question concerning Bennett. Since the DP some 20 years ago, SMU has won 25% of its games. That averages out to 3 wins per season. Bennett has been with us for 2 years. In his first season we actually won 3 games. Last year was an anomaly due to our QB debacle; otherwise we might have won 2 or 3 games.

So in conclusion, absent the QB hall pass last year, Bennett is performing par for the course post DP.

That is how low we have sunk

[GoRedGoBlue]

EastStang you are really deluding yourself if you think we have a shot at the same JUCO players TCU, Tech, OSU for example go after. Just because we signed 3 JUCOs that were fully qualified out of high school(and I might add not offered by a single other major Division 1A school) does not mean we are on an equal competitive playing field with those schools-not to mention the long list and I mean extensive list of TCU Division 1A transfers who have gone on to star for TCU.

Tony Eckert was offered by Aggies

[Cheesesteak]

Posted by Stallion and echoed by some others:

...And "the hand-cuffs are off" with regard to JUCOs? I'm telling you that the evidence is that they are not except for a small slice of JUCO prospects-all of which have been fully qualified out of high school so far.


So SMU needs to drop standards another grade and make admissions easier for high-end (athletically) / possibly low-end (academically) JUCOS who cannot gain admission under SMU’s current JUCO transfer guidelines?

Assuming SMU isn't presently going to spend the significant capital to establish new "athlete-friendly" majors, where does the balance lie? Is it right for SMU to admit kids and not have a place where they have a realistic chance to progress academically and hopefully eventually graduate?

The large majority of high-end HS football players who have even rudimentary scholastic abilities go directly to a four-year college. Some non-qualifiers and certain others take the JUCO route.

Some colleges, as we know, require speed, size, strength, agility, aggressiveness, talent, etc. as their admissions standards for high-end JUCO athletes.

The following types of high-end or potentially high-end HS football players go to JUCOS out of HS:

A) Late bloomers (athletically and/or academically) (might be fully qualified out of HS) that need to develop and hope to earn a scholarship after two years of JUCO gridiron success.
B) Low-end (academically) players that even colleges with the nadir of admissions standards could not close their eyes, swallow hard and take.
C) Players with troubled backgrounds.
D) Players with unique situations or combinations of the above.

For those that want SMU to put the JUCO hand cuffs in a drawer…what is your bottom line? I realize what other schools are doing but let’s get everyone’s specific SMU solution out on the table.

Assuming no new departments/programs (that I know of) and SMU’s legitimate concern that some (note that I said some) JUCO courses have no parallel with SMU’s existing curriculum or are obviously of very questionable worth as having legitimate academic credibility…what specific standards are you proposing for JUCO recruitment and admission?

[MeanGreenGem]

UNT hired an Offensive Coordinator from SMU as head coach for the Mean Green, one Darrell Dickey. Here is his record:

1998......3-8
1999......2-9
2000......3-8
2001......5-7
2002......8-5 (1'st above .500 season in his 5'th season)
2003......9-4


Our alums were livid DD's first 3 years and were where yalls are now with Bennett; but we are now glad Dickey was not fired.

The trend in the NCAA is for 1'st year turnarounds, ie, Tulsa, but at some locales it is just not going to happen that way. It didn't at UNT for sure.

[Mustangs35SMU]

Yall also never went 0-12..you can understand why a lot of people are wanting him gone

[Stallion]

Tony Eckert was never offered by Texas A&M-please post one shread of evidence from an independent recruiting source that claims otherwise. As for whether SMU should be allowed to enroll the same type of students that 80-85% of all Division 1A schools admit-that's exactly what I'm saying. The abolition of the Kineseolgy/Physical education degree which existed for years at SMU was simply another part of Kenneth Pye's plan to emasculate the athletic department-it's simply part of the price of playing Division 1A athletics. Heck even Rice has a Kinesiology major-as anyone who follows recruiting knows athletes often want to be coaches when they graduate.

[MeanGreenGem]

Yall also never went 0-12..you can understand why a lot of people are wanting him gone

Mustangs35SMU, IMHO, I think our athletic administration came to the point of asking themselves: Who would take this job who wouldn't have the same results Coach Dickey had in his first 4 years? UNT's cupboard was bare when DD arrived (just like Bennett's was at SMU I'd bet many of you would even agree).

After the last Sun Belt Conference league game we lost 3 years ago against University of Louisiana (Monroe) Indians, our alumnus base and fans were ready to tar and feather Coach Dickey out of town!:( I mean most of our fans did not want him to even finish out the 2001 season. Glad we didn't get our way as he hasn't lost another league game since and has even won a bowl game.

Peace....

[HFvictory]

Lots of coaches have a worse record, but very few lasted over one season. Frank Caredio at Missouri lasted 3 seasons and had a 2-23-2 record or .111. Interesting, Joe Avezzano lasted 5 seasons at Oregoan State and went 6-47-2, .127. Bob Ward at Maryland went 2-17, .105.

Dont know of any other coaches, but I am sure there are a few.

[ponyboy]

[quote="MeanGreenGem" (just like Bennett's was at SMU I'd bet many of you would even agree)[/quote]

Could not agree more. Bennett has had as juniors and seniors the last two years the absolute worst recruiting classes in the history of this school. He's had solid classes of his own who should start coming into their own. This is THE reason I am not quite so gloom and doom as so many after at 0-12 season. Things will get better.

[Stallion]

Bennett's had the two worst, crappiest recruiting classes in the history of SMU? I dunno-I can name at least 10 since the DP which were generally on the same level. That's the point! That's why we win about 24% of our games-why we win about 12-15% of the games against Texas teams with which we used to compete. We've NEVER in 15 years had the talent to compete consistently and it is directly tied to recruiting. What's more concerning is that Phil Bennett's first two full recruiting classes were no better than Mike Cavan's first two full recruiting classes. Will Phil Bennett after 0-12 go on to have the "two crappiest recruiting classes in SMU history" like you claim Cavan had?

[04stang]

Bennett has done an outstanding job getting great FOOTBALL players to come to smu, besides for the rivals.com high school polls and all of the other ones which are all meaningless anyways, Bennett has gotten players to smu that WANT to be there and WANT to win. The mustangs will have a winning season in 2004, and then maybe that will shut all people up that have negative things to say about smu. Tony Eckert was offered by the aggies, and also by texas tech out of high school but there were circumstances that happened which kept him from going to any of those schools. Another interesting fact is that he has also had winning seasons every year in which he has started (high school, juco), and could he bring that winning attitude to SMU??? Everyone will know soon enough....

[Uncle Morty]

Very interesting. What exactly where those circumstances, was he a partial qualifier? My long time buddy Stallion is just dieing to know.

[Johnny Rock]

For all of the Bennett lovers on this board, the bottom line coaches are judged by their win / loss record. We all can agree that the coaches since the DP have not had a fighting chance to win compared with other Div. 1 schools. It is disturbing that many on this board still stick up for the way SMU runs its athletic program. Frankly, please tell me how much more can SMU screw this thing up? How in the hell is Bennett going to win a game next year? Have you guys looked at the schedule? Six bowl teams plus most of our WAC opponents have reloaded with JUCO's who will contribute now. (i.e., Tulsa, Boise St., etc.) Bennett is likely to have another winless season. He also let his only verbal commitment get away (Chris Hall) and has failed to gain one verbal commitment to date. I do respect Bennett's enthusiasm but it is time for him to deliver results and less talk (same for Copeland). Bennet once said he did not give all of his alloted scholarships this year due to players begging to transfer to SMU. Where are these alleged transfers? My point, less rhetoric and bull crap from the athletic department and more results. Frankly, until they make changes to compete on a 'level playing field' the losses and embarresment will continue. Remember folks there is a reason the stands are empty on game day. It is not by accident.

[Stallion]

One stat sums it up best-SMU once competed on a reasonably competitive basis in the SWC a BCS level conference. During the 15 years since the DP we have won exactly 11% of our games against our most natural and traditional rivals from that conference in Texas including being dominated by private schools like Rice, TCU and Baylor not to mention the others-this is the true measure of just how sorry this chapter in SMU History has been.

[ponyboy]

Bennett's had the two worst, crappiest recruiting classes in the history of SMU?

Reread what I said. Last year, Bennett had at his disposal juniors and seniors that came from the two worst recruiting classes in SMU history, namely the dreadful 2000 and 2001 classes.