What if We Never Cheated?

[ponyboy]

Here's a question for you.

Would we have been better off had we never decided to cheat?

The Pony Express would certainly never have happened. But perhaps neither would have the breakup of the SWC and our fall to lesser conference status.

Where do you think we'd be? Would we have continued the thirty year trend of mediocrity that began in 1950?

In my mind those years were fool's gold. Like heroin, fun while it lasted but with a horrible after effect.

[ponydawg]

What if grandma had testicles?

[rich59]

An interesting question? The guy who may have had a big role in this is not mentioned. I have his name in my files from a letter he sent me when Dave Smith was fired but am too lazy to look it up. The president at SMU who succeeded Willis Tate resigned and this president took over and soon fired Dave, who is one of the few coaches in SMU history with a winning record. Ron Meyer was hired and things gradually turned around. This president(whose name I can't remember) and who I am sure had a hand in the big increase in cheating, at some point during the gradual improvement in SMU football left and went to USC, ( I think). Donald Shields then became president.

If Dave Smith had not been fired and SMU had continued operating as before, (with a modest amount of cheating) it is possible that the Mustangs could have been relatively competitive and when the SWC broke up they would have been included in the Big 12, with either Texas Tech or Baylor being left out.

[CalallenStang]

Rich, I think the name you are looking for is James Zumberge

[couch 'em]

The SWC would surely have still broken up, and we'd still be where we are now because we would have been a total doormat, ala Rice.

We'd be right where we are now, but without any dreams of former glory to inspire us to try. Again, see Rice.

[CalallenStang]

The SWC would surely have still broken up, and we'd still be where we are now because we didn't give degrees to Richards or Bullock

Fixed it for you

[peruna11]

We would either be Baylor, TCU, right where we are, or worse.

Short version: who knows.

Without PFP, we would have been a SWC doormat. So should we have done the honorable thing and quit SWC, possibly cancelled football?

"(with a modest amount of cheating) it is possible that the Mustangs could have been relatively competitive and when the SWC broke up they would have been included in the Big 12"

This is the only way I see us going back in time & hoping for a better outcome.

Unfortunately, given the climate of the SWC, deciding not to cheat at all would have gotten us nowhere.

But if we had just cheated less and been a low to mid level Big XII team, would we be a viable option for another AQ conference today, or stuck praying the seams don't burst like Baylor and tech are doing now?

I wish we were in a better spot today, and I want an unreasonable amount of growth each year, but I can say I'm glad we aren't groveling at UT's feet like much of the Big XII(-2) (and I say that realizing we will probably have to grovel at someone's feet to get into a better conference eventually).

[Sammy 11]

Its impossible to know re: the Big 12 due to so many variables but looking at it I would have to say SMU would still be outside. You were a .500 team before Ron Meyer and averaged 30k. Baylor averaged better than that and the larger fanbase would win out again if they took 12 teams total. BU and TT were the #3 and #4 largest remaining schools after Arky departed and accordingly had the fanbases. Both had better facilities than the others and that made it an easy decision compared to the other 4. The fact BU had a strong record against the whole SWC over the last 20 years also played a role. Former UT chancellor cunningham was quoted in saying BU had a far more positive overall profile than tcu which he considered to be the first runner up.

Politics did play a role in BU and Texas Tech getting invited but it merely made what would be a 10 team league into a 12 team one. The former Tech AD was quoted in saying as much.

[NickSMU17]

Its impossible to know re: the Big 12 due to so many variables but looking at it I would have to say SMU would still be outside. You were a .500 team before Ron Meyer and averaged 30k. Baylor averaged better than that and the larger fanbase would win out again if they took 12 teams total. BU and TT were the #3 and #4 largest remaining schools after Arky departed and accordingly had the fanbases. Both had better facilities than the others and that made it an easy decision compared to the other 4. The fact BU had a strong record against the whole SWC over the last 20 years also played a role. Former UT chancellor cunningham was quoted in saying BU had a far more positive overall profile than tcu which he considered to be the first runner up.

Politics did play a role in BU and Texas Tech getting invited but it merely made what would be a 10 team league into a 12 team one. The former Tech AD was quoted in saying as much.

You guys are out in the next 5 years...enjoy it while it lasts...you got in for 1 reason, please do not pretend that there was anything else...

[rich59]

Thanks, it was Jim Zumberge. I was talking just now with another guy my vintage and together we came up with that name. The progression of presidents was interesting at that time and really ties in with the football program ups and downs.

[Sammy 11]

You guys are out in the next 5 years...enjoy it while it lasts...you got in for 1 reason, please do not pretend that there was anything else...

1- If the Big10 isn't moving, and the SEC isn't moving, and the ACC isn't moving... the P12 has no shot at raiding UT/OU/OSU/TT. ESPN will pay what is needed to keep them out of Fox's hands as fox would have them via the P16 network and likely the main contract. Could it eventually fall apart? Sure. I just wouldn't count on it being anytime soon or else the damage would have been done in June. Bevo network did not kill the deal, Larry Scott said as much and it would be foolish for the Pac to let that kill the deal. UT does not want to essentially have things dictated to them by 12-4 voting results and once the money is equal there is no reason to risk that at all.

2- Politics certainly got us in and forced the 12 team configuration but it was not what elevated BU or Tech above the 4.

If you do some homework on it you will find attendance figures, traveling fans, bowl records, facilities, living alumni base, alumni in DFW vs TCU/SMU all is landslide for BU & TT vs the 4 once SMU got the death penalty. Prior to that I will easily admit it would be a close matchup for the last spot between the 2 of us.

(exception to this is UH having more overall alumni but to quote a cotton bowl rep concerning their fanbase, "they never show up, and those that do are either working at 7-11 or robbing it." In light of UH's apathetic base BU and TT get the nod easily)

[BIGHORSE]

What if we cheated, but didn't get the death penalty, we would have been

great all this time!

[Stallion]

Who knows-all I'll say is that I think Ron Meyer and his staff could have been successful without the cheating. It would have taken longer and we might not have hit the heights as fast but as Ron said-"I'm a really good recruiter". He would have stayed longer too. He promoted SMU and Dallas as we wanted SMU to be promoted. He had the Big Picture-he definitely made the right decision to move to Texas Stadium because that's where recruits wanted to play-and that is how you win football games. He was a breath of fresh air because he stood out from all the other boring, bland football coaches-even Barry Switzer. Ron Meyer was my last hero Football Coach- EVER. In the end though he built a program with a faulty foundation built on sand. Too bad he didn't have more confidence in his own ability-because he was talented.

[RGV Pony]

What if we cheated, but didn't get the death penalty, we would have been

great all this time!

or...going another direction..

what if we'd allowed Jimmy Johnson to do what was said he wouldve been willing to do...that is "crawl on his knees to Dallas" to replace Meyer. Hitch wasnt patient enough. Jimmy wouldnt have screwed up what was going on.

Imagine an SMU coached by Jimmy in 1982.

[Treadway21]

To the Baylor guy - Ann Richards - spare us the attendance figures.