Former Gov. Bill Clements, Jr. - Makes My Blood Boil!

[MrMustang1965]

OC: You sound like someone who either works for the university or who was a lot closer to the situation than you lead us to believe. I'll adopt a popular phrase to express my sentiments towards EVERYONE involved in the DP and its long-lasting effects on SMU: "Never forgive, never forget."

[BUS]

I don't know about that last statement. I think we can all forgive and not carry the anger of losing a part of our schools integrity, but NEVER forget what over zealous behavior brought to SMU.

Was it usual and customary business to other schools - YES
Do schools still do it - YES
Can SMU even think about being like the other schools - NO

I know a lot of alumni, and they were very mad at the NCAA picking on little private SMU. Guess what, nothing went forward and Pye came in and changed things...

It is time to get back to a level playing field - I am not saying going over to the DARK SIDE and doing what some other schools are doing but at least in Recruiting, Degree Programs and Others posted on this board, SMU need to get competitive.

Yes, Forgive but NEVER Forget.

[NavyCrimson]

well said - bus...

can't blame clements for the last 10+ yrs...that's the responsibility of the administrations since '88...clement's good has far outweighed the negatives!

[OldPony]

I'm glad that Clements continues to give money. At $17 million though, he hasn't given enough to make up for what he cost SMU. Keep trying Bill.

[EastStang]

I agree with OC about the need to focus on the Bush Library. If Clements can help land that library, it would be a big plum for SMU. Tour buses may go through SMU now, but they would have to put it on their stops to see the Bush Library. And as most of us know, one look at the view of the University driving up Bishop from Mockingbird, and you can't help but be impressed. It would definitely help increase donations and applications to the school. Clements screwed up, no doubt about it. I'm not saying you have to forgive him, but I'll take his money any day of the week.

[jtstang]

Yeah go try that logic on employees that work for a "private organization" and sue that private organization for all kinds of unfair practices.

Same thing with Home Owners Associations.

I do not know if SMU would have had a valid court case or not, but your logic is flawed by implying SMU could not have sued because they were a member of a private organization and the only choice is "love it or leave it".

A couple of things about my logic--first I never implied SMU could not sue. Anybody with about $200 bucks can file a lawsuit. Second, the constitutional issues regarding NCAA enforcement, typically due process, have been litigated and won by the NCAA. For example, when Tark got the Nevada legislature to pass a statute requiring NCAA investigations comport with Nevada due process, the NCAA filed the lawsuit which struck the statute down as unconstitutional. So as these issues are concerned, I think the choice is indeed "love it or leave it." Sorry to confuse you.

Do not understand your points re HOAs and employers--that's apples and oranges. HOA's as I understand typically get sued when they try to overstep their authority as defined by themselves, and while employers get sued for all kinds of things, I don't think due process is one of them unless they are a governent entity. I may be wrong on these, and if one of the judges or other lawyers read this, please correct me.

Finally, I recall from taking a class in Sports Law that there was a suit filed, unsuccessfully, by an SMU alumnus (not by SMU) against the NCAA ostensibly arising from the death penalty situation. I cannot remember the name of the case or any of the details, only that the NCAA won. Maybe the guy just didn't have standing. Can somebody else remember the details?

[OC Mustang]

For MrMustang1965's benefit, so you don't think I am Sherwood Blount -

I was a student during 1988 through 1993. Live on the West Coast now (which is God-awful hard to do for a dyed-in-denim Texan). My wife started at SMU but finished at Sam (she's a Kindergarten teacher), and if I recall correctly about your background, that ought to warm you a little more to me, if not my point of view.

Something interesting occured during '87-'94 and was later curtailed courtesy of Jerry Junkins' tenure as Board Chairman. Students were allowed unprecedented access to University leadership and mechanics, including serving on the Board. The group of students doing this was all but secret, highly qualified, highly vetted, passionate about SMU, and their service on the Board was not widely publicized. Junkins thought us all too controversial and lacking credibility, and he reduced the role of students vis-a-vis the BOT post-Pye's passing away from cancer in '94.
As well, other parts of the University proved insightful as well, including the President's office, the Development office, the Athletic office, and even the Willis Tate Lecture Series committee on Student Foundation. All had students who were discreet as well as highly committed to the school...and we had really good hearing. Some of us still do, though for me most of this is ancient history written years before the press decided it was noteworthy enough to write on it.

As for "never forgiving and never forgetting", the former isn't part of an ostensibly Christian university's mission statement, so I respectfully disagree with you. And the latter, well, we've done our mea culpas. It's time to move on. If the good Governor Clements or the good President Bush can help SMU, I hope that they always rise to the occasion to do so.

BTW, I met one fellow from this forum, LA Mustang about 6 years ago after I first moved out to OC. We met at a bar in Belmont Shores in Long Beach to watch a game. So if you run into him, my regards. Good guy. Wish there were more like him.

[BUS]

Dear OC:
The BUS will be in LA from Monday till Thursday morning. If you would like to try to grab dinner and/or drinks Tuesday or Wednesday night send me a super secret message on the board e-mails system.

It's always good to know more Mustangs.

[MrMustang1965]

OC: Thank you for a very insightful look at more of the clandestine nature of SMU's internal and external political posturing pre-during-and-post DP. It's quite obvious you know a LOT about what happened...you should write a book on it...or have you already?

[jtstang]

Okay, although I may now be the only one interested, I went back to my old textbook. The case (which is only partially reproduced in the test) was McCormack v. NCAA, 845 F.2d 1338 (5th Cir. 1988), in which the SMU lawyer-alumnus brought a class action on behalf of the school's "alumni, cheerleaders, and athletes" in the wake of the death penalty, complaining, of all things, that the NCAA's restraints on compensation to athletes violated antitrust laws. Apparently after doubting that there was standing for the purported class, the court held even if the eligiblility and enforcement rules were restraints on trade, they are reasonable.

So there is another possible legal challenge thwarted, even one arising directly from the death penalty. Now, enough of the legal mumbo-jumbo, let's bring on talk about the Boulevard!! I'll be the drunk guy citing caselaw....

[No Cal Pony]

OC Mustang. While you may be a Texan, I don't think living in So Cal is all that bad for a person your age. Of course, the hard part for us SMU die hards is being away, and sometime tough to schedule visits back to the Big D to visit and see the Ponies. It was really tough for me as I work in film and tv production. That being said, there are quite a few SMU folk out there, the hard part being that it can be difficult to get folks together given the nightmare that can be navigating the LA freeways.

I was involved with SMU after I graduated. I even served as Prez of the LASR for LA area. Try going to high schools to recruit kids after '87, as I tried to do. I knew SMU had some tough financial propositions, but matters were only made that much worse to have that black eye. I grew up in the LA area, and I had no problem with heading out to Dallas for school. I had a good time and got a good education. I knew Clements was still working quietly to aid the school, but I always felt that he didn't always seem to make some of the calls he could or should have. Yes, SMU had to make some painful choices, but Pye went beyond the necessary. We still pay today, as some of the judgements allowed for a very ineffective ability to transition back to being competitive on and off the field.

jtstang notes the lawsuit filed by a SMU alum. I had a good friend from high school who's father was a big LA legal eagle (and SMU grad.) He too thought of a lawsuit, but decided that it would not come to the outcome he wished for SMU. The ncaa would still win. Always remember how its powers work, and for whom they work.

What happened, what I saw from '83 to '87 created such an emotional rollercoaster. I always appreciate those who aid our school, but still remain torn over Clements. I do forgive (and have,) but still remember what he didn't do.

For all those, especially Rayburn, who post fantastic photos, bless you. No matter what anybody says, SMU has a wonderful history. It is only too bad more folks do not understand this fact.

A toast to all those who post here.

Go Ponies!

[oakley]

A lot of stuff went on between 1987-1992 that truly saved the school from financial ruin (and we are talking about a non-profit entity, so it was most definitely a going concern).

Explain further - ?