June Jones vs. Gerald Turner -- a struggle for power

[Mitch McConnell]

Is there anyone who doesn't think that's what has been going on here since the denied admissions thing?

Orsini and Jones raised $500K for the academic center. For some reason, the school never really went public with it? Is that right? That would be disappointing to know that was accurate.

IMO, we have Turner and his academic cronies and the academic side/supporters lining up on one side.
We have Jones, the Circle of Champions, Steve Orsini and other major athletic donors/supporters lining up on the other.

Should be some interesting times to see who really will run the campus.

[RGV Pony]

is Orsini and unfortunate pawn, given his current contract situation? That predicament gives Turner an additional measure of power.

[Dutch]

Is there anyone who doesn't think that's what has been going on here since the denied admissions thing?

Orsini and Jones raised $500K for the academic center. For some reason, the school never really went public with it? Is that right? That would be disappointing to know that was accurate.

IMO, we have Turner and his academic cronies and the academic side/supporters lining up on one side.
We have Jones, the Circle of Champions, Steve Orsini and other major athletic donors/supporters lining up on the other.

Should be some interesting times to see who really will run the campus.

doesn't CoC essentially consist of the big donors to the school as well. Hunts, Ford, Sewell, et al. versus who?

[skyscraper]

doesn't CoC essentially consist of the big donors to the school as well. Hunts, Ford, Sewell, et al. versus who?

I thought at some point we, as a board, had pieced together a CoC list. Although I don't know which thread it would be buried in.

[Mitch McConnell]

I think Dr. Turner is a backstabber. He's better than Pye. But he's one of those guys that he's with you in the public forum but behind closed doors? Forget it.

If what Alex was saying is true that Turner is mad at Orsini because he didn't put down the revolt over the denied admissions thing, then that's pretty shortsided. So he wanted Orsini and his staff to personally assure everybody that this would be resolved and we had nothing to worry about? Well, I can go to North Korea for that kind of thing.

Turner needs to look at his provost and everybody connected with this for not getting out in front of this. He's making athletics the scapegoat.

I've always heard that he told Orsini that if he could raise the $$ to build/add on or whatever, he could. Is that no longer the case?

Turner just needs to make sure everything with the Library goes smoothly and stay the hell out of the way.

[Insane_Pony_Posse]

Stallion is "fishing" for info concerning what is really going on.
Sorry there is no "pre-trial discovery" here counselor....
Stallion can defend Turner and demean June all he wants...
But Turner better re-sign Orsini and quick or he will go down as Pye Jr!
Look at where we are compared to two years ago or the last 20 years!
Hello?... Earth to Reality----OVER?
Orsini has turned around 20 years of misery.
RE-SIGN AND GIVE STEVE ORSINI A RAISE NOW TURNER!

[BIGHORSE]

Turner is being like Pye Jr., S.M.U. needs to stop being it's own worst enemy!

[Stallion]

If fans are going to lead a very public media onslaught on the university and threaten to a movement to fire the President of the University because of "admission problems" then they have the burden of persuasion by articulating that they know the first thing about what they are talking about. Otherwise-shut up. I think I have a articulated the probable profile of recruits that June Jones is talking about-he's talking about kids that score below 700 on their SAT-he's probably still pissed he couldn't get a convicted felon into school last year. I think it is completely reasonable to restrict admission of those categories of recruits and I think most schools with the reputation of SMU would similiarly restrict admission as I showed by identifying at least 12 full qualifiers who were denied admissions to schools all across the country. Now if my profile is inaccurate then anybody can correct any inaccuracy. I really don't think you'll hear June Jones publically state how low he wants to go.

[NickSMU17]

If fans are going to lead a very public media onslaught on the university and threaten to a movement to fire the President of the University because of "admission problems" then they have the burden of persuasion by articulating that they know the first thing about what they are talking about. Otherwise-shut up. I think I have a articulated the probable profile of recruits that June Jones is talking about-he's talking about kids that score below 700 on their SAT-he's probably still pissed he couldn't get a convicted felon into school last year. I think it is completely reasonable to restrict admission of those categories of recruits and I think most schools with the reputation of SMU would similiarly restrict admission as I showed by identifying at least 12 full qualifiers who were denied admissions to schools all across the country. Now if my profile is inaccurate then anybody can correct any inaccuracy. I really don't think you'll hear June Jones publically state how low he wants to go.

I don't disagree, I think his complaint is that those kids with low scores still have to go through faculty review board. JJ wants this done away with, and I don't blame him....If we are going to compete at the highest level create the limits and we don't need an interview process because most of these kids aren't going to be well recieved by many of our faculty...

[Longtime]

Boy, Mitch has a flair for the dramatic.

It's been a struggle between academics and athletics since 1989. This is nothing new. Academics had the upper hand for 20-plus years. Now we've got a coach who has taken us to a couple of bowl games and he's got some leverage.

It's not a JJ vs. Turner thing. It's an SMU thing. You don't think Gregg, Rossley, Cavan and Bennett had their clashes with the admissions policies? None of them had the power to make much headway. June, with his huge salary and continued success, is fighting from a much better position than any previous post-DP coach.

Before you light the torches and grab the pitchforks, keep in mind that we can only assume JJ wants a complete eradication of all post-DP admissions policies. He wants to bring in anyone who meets the NCAA minimums. And if he gets his way, he could be bringing in the kind of student-athlete many of us criticize other universities for having in their programs.

Be prepared to hear about more SMU players being suspended and arrested. It's what happens in most programs that have no standards above the NCAA minimums. And many of those programs have a hard time winning. Being able to admit anyone the NCAA allows is no guarantee of success.

[Samurai Stang]

Before you light the torches and grab the pitchforks, keep in mind that we can only assume JJ wants a complete eradication of all post-DP admissions policies. He wants to bring in anyone who meets the NCAA minimums. And if he gets his way, he could be bringing in the kind of student-athlete many of us criticize other universities for having in their programs.

Be prepared to hear about more SMU players being suspended and arrested. It's what happens in most programs that have no standards above the NCAA minimums. And many of those programs have a hard time winning. Being able to admit anyone the NCAA allows is no guarantee of success.

June desires the minimum standard that he was promised.

True, lower standards on their own do not necessarily lead to winning. However, June Jones is a proven winner. This proven winner desires the minimum academic standard in order to produce more winning. At last SMU has someone who can win, and when he asks for the tools to win, he is told 'no.'

A guarantee to not have success is to disrespect June Jones to the point that he leaves. Not many individuals would want to stay at a job where the administration is as ungrateful as it is at SMU, particularly when they are being offered almost twice as much elsewhere. Once can imagine even June Jones has his limits.

[gostangs]

No guarantee perhaps - but it greatly enhances your chances - and in fact you could say it is a minimum requirement since nobody is successful at football if they try to raise their standards above the NCAA minimum.

That said - although I hope he wins the arguement - this is nothing new. Athletics and admissions are in a constant state of tension in every school in the country - since everyone is trying to run semi pro football programs within Universities.

However - if we want to play the game, JJ is correct that we have to compete with everyone else - which means tutors out the wazoo to shepard the dummies through.

And turner is no idiot, nor is he against athletics - most of his bosses want both a great university and a great athletic program - he has to figure out how to do both - none of you ninnies could even get close to pulling that off.

JJ and Turner are not mutually exclusive. Turner will respond to the pressure and give him most of what he wants - end of story.

[b_caesar]

So much for being the Harvard/Yale of the midwest when it comes to academics . . . might as well ditch those school colors right now for something more competitive so we can get us a winning football program.

Oh, and increase the SMU PD patrol staff, too, to handle the miscreants who aren't as talented that all they get is their hand slapped and resume playing the next Saturday, 'cause winning football games is what any good top tier University is all about.

[Stallion]

assuming we are talking about sub 700 SAT scores-we are talking about the Bottom 6% and below of all Males tested in the United States in 2010. We don't need them to compete. They can still get into SMU by graduating from a JUCO. How low do you want to go? 670 SAT (with a 2.85 GPA) is bottom 4%. 640 SAT (with a 2.95 GPA) Bottom 3%. 620(with a 3.00 GPA) is Bottom 2%. I think its an entirely reasonable position especially when you consider how many of these kids are not going to cut it at a school with an average SAT that is 500-600 points higher. I think if you think it is an UNreasonable position then maybe you've lost your perspective

http://professionals.collegeboard.com/p ... m-2010.pdf

[b_caesar]

Oops, there I went, getting distracted myself. There's a bowl game to play this Thursday.