Stanford recruits the "Smart'" Market

[Stallion]

72Mustang:

I'm glad you pointed out the recentering of the SAT test because it demonstrates that traditionally under the old Prop 48 the minimum SAT score had a floor for freshman eligibility of a 700 SAT. But as pointed out in an excert from Wikipedia(see Below), the SAT became about 100 points easier after the recentering.

So in the early dark days of Ken Pye when one spoke of Category C being first a 950 SAT (susequently reduced to I believe to 950 then 900 after recentering) you were really talking about a 1050 SAT today. It always confused me why the NCAA went to a 820 floor for a few years before John Thompson, Cheney and other minorities complained so much that the SAT has now been completely deemphasized. The Reason the NCAA raised the floor was because of the recentering ("Student-athletes who take the SAT must now (after April 1) score 820 to satisfy the standardized-test component of Divisions I and II initial eligibility standards and qualify for athletic scholarships. This reflects a change in the scoring system not an eligibility change," says Barry Conway, publisher of "Athletic Scholarships: A Complete Guide" Students will not have to answer more correct questions to achieve this score.")

SMU's Category C now under the "easier" recentered test starts at 2.5 GPA or 900 SAT and in 2009-2010 SMU admitted something like 23 of 25 Category C football players. I've often argued that it is no longer true that all NCAA programs will admit all NCAA minimum qualifiers and I've used example of hypothetical qualifiers with a 3.0 Core GPA/540 SAT or a 2.8/620 SAT. I've speculated that I thought a lot of schools would retain the original standards of say for example a 700 SAT. But that is not correct because after the recentering the same score was really at least an 800 or as the NCAA briefly listed 820 SAT. In fact I just read a 2004 Baylor NCAA Required Academic Report to the NCAA describing the effect of the deemphasized SAT and they concluded they had institutionally decided to retain the old floor of 820 SAT for admissions.

The conclusion becomes even more inescapable that SMU is admitting an extremely high percentage of marginal NCAA qualifiers despite losing the 2 recruits last year because a high percentage of SMU admissions come from within 80 points of the old recentered floor of 820 SAT-my previous comments about possibly a 700 SAT floor should have referred to a recentered floor of 820 SAT

Here is the Wikipedia article about recentering:

The test scoring was initially scaled to make 500 the mean score on each section with a standard deviation of 100.[28] As the test grew more popular and more students from less rigorous schools began taking the test, the average dropped to about 428 Verbal and 478 Math. The SAT was "recentered" in 1995, and the average "new" score became again close to 500. Scores awarded after 1994 and before October 2001 are officially reported with an "R" (e.g. 1260R) to reflect this change. Old scores may be recentered to compare to 1995 to present scores by using official College Board tables,[29] which in the middle ranges add about 70 points to Verbal and 20 or 30 points to Math. In other words, current students have a 100 (70 plus 30) point advantage over their parents.

[birddogger]

At this rate, in ten years, the average football recruit will be a 4-starred, 1300-SAT scorer with an inflated ego, attending a $100K per year university. Can't wait...

[Stallion]

Here is the 2004 Baylor Academic Report to the NCAA which states quite clearly that when the floor was a 820 SAT that Baylor followed NCAA Minimum qualification standards. But then when the floor was deemphasized it created what Baylor called a "paradox". Therefore, Baylor institutionally decided to retain the 820 SAT floor ie they decided not to admit all NCAA minimum qualifiers-I believe many schools including SMU have decided to do the exact same thing:

http://www.baylor.edu/pr/news.php?actio ... story=8146

Here are the pertinent parts of the long report:

Freshman Admission: Historical Perspective at Baylor University

The minimum SAT score for an NCAA qualifier has been 820 or an ACT Combined score of 68 (assuming a GPA of 2.5 or greater). Baylor's athletic scholarship standards have been linked to NCAA minimums, thus Baylor's minimum SAT score for an eligible scholarship athlete has also been 820 (or an ACT score of 68). (Currently, a GPA in excess of 2.5 does not affect the SAT portion of the index - the minimum score is still 820.) The new NCAA Initial Eligibility Standards feature a pure sliding scale with no minimum required score on the SAT or ACT. A 2.5 GPA still qualifies an 820 SAT score but, for example, a 2.75 Core GPA will now qualify a PSA who scores 720 on the SAT and a 3.0 GPA will qualify a PSA with a 620 SAT score. On the extreme end of this scale, a PSA who has a Core GPA of 3.55 and above can qualify with the lowest possible SAT (400) or ACT (37) score one can receive on the test.

Therefore, despite the NCAA requirement of an additional core course (from 13 to 14), it will, in our opinion, become easier to meet NCAA Initial Eligibility Standards. In what appears to be a paradox, the new continuing eligibility standards (i.e., "Progress Toward Degree" requirements) established by the NCAA are significantly heightened (40% of the declared degree must be completed in two years, 60% in three, etc., as opposed to the old standard of 25% of the declared major completed in two years and 50% in three years). Finally, the NCAA is currently in the process of creating an "incentives-disincentives" program which has the potential to penalize a university athletics program that underachieves academically.

It may be that reducing admission standards while increasing performance requirements will not create eligibility problems at institutions that are not academically selective. However, the median SAT for an entering freshman at Baylor has been between 1170 and 1175 the past several years. In addition, it is highly likely that any individual that is more than 3 standard deviations below his or her peer group academically (i.e., approximately 350 points on the SAT) will struggle for success at that institution. Thus, for Baylor University, a student who has an SAT score below 820 may well have significant academic difficulties. Moreover, it is unrealistic to believe that a student at Baylor with an SAT of 620 can compete with students with an average score of 1170 (a 550 point difference), regardless of his or her high school core GPA.

However, the task force is not recommending that Baylor's minimum SAT/ACT score for athletes be raised despite the new progress towards degree requirements. Instead, it is recommending that admission standards not be lowered.



Thus, it is recommended that the current minimum SAT of 820 (or ACT of 68) and a qualifying Core GPA should be maintained.


Our current system appears to work well. Baylor's student-athlete graduation rate is commendable and the University has not had an excessive number of academic casualties. The task force firmly believes that if Baylor "packs" its teams with NCAA qualifiers with SAT/ACT scores below 820/68 minimum, most of them will not be eligible as upperclassmen and will not graduate. This recommendation to differentiate Baylor's admissions requirements from NCAA initial eligibility standards is consistent with the observation by NCAA president Myles Brand that admission of the PSA is an institutional decision. As he recently pointed out, the NCAA academic reform legislation sets a national standard for eligibility to compete. Admission standards, on the other hand, need to be tied to the institution's unique academic demands.

[CalallenStang]

I don't understand the Baylor doc. Highest possible ACT score is 36. Why does it say the lowest possible score is 37?

[Stallion]

that is the composite of a 4 part test. For example, the NCAA's sliding scale might list the following potentially low qualifiers adding all 4 parts but coaches usually use the composite score like this:

60 ACT which is approximately equivalent to a 15 composite ACT (700-740 SAT)
64 ACT = 16 composite ACT (750-790 SAT)
68 ACT= 17 composite ACT (800-830 SAT)-ie The Old Floor
etc

When the Baylor Report refers to a 37 ACT they are not speaking about a high score but instead about the worst possible score-approximately about a 10 composite ACT (400 SAT) which again only goes to prove there is no real floor on NCAA sliding scale-the SAT/ACT has been deemphasized for NCAA qualification

Here are a series of SAT/ACT conversion charts

http://teachers.sduhsd.k12.ca.us/tpcoun ... _Chart.htm

[SoCal_Pony]

i call B.S. on this.

This quotes tops the list...

"One of the coaches told me they can only recruit from 250 kids across the country that are academically eligible, and even fewer of those are premier Division I athletes," said Stanford signee Remound Wright, a four-star running back from Fort Wayne, Ind. with a 4.42 GPA.