Gerald Turner on CSpan

[Samurai Stang]

I would be remiss in leaving out the arts as well, Meadows is a very significant part of our intuitions identity and it is a consistently excellent and improving part of our university.

More dancers enter SMU with questionable academics than football players.

so what?

you're really missing the point.

No, actually. I understand your point entirely. I am disagreeing with it.

Many arts students, particularly dancers, enter with, and maintain, very poor grades. That is not consistent excellence. It cannot even be called consistent mediocrity.

[RednBlue11]

that's a pretty narrow minded way of looking at the contribution Meadows makes to this university.

and to what i was saying before, is missing the point...mainly because their excellence is measured in significantly different ways than mine as a student.

would i like them to get good grades in the other colleges? absolutely!

but by no means should they be beholden exclusively to a definition of what excellence is defined by a college that is not the one they get their major from.

for instance...the way in which my analysis of a historical event is measured is in no way compatible with the measurement of dance, sculpture, or music.

we may be measured on the same 4 point scale but the things that define how that grade is determined are totally different.

[friarwolf]

Here are the issues SMU faces to keep moving up in the ranks. First and foremost, we are fighting for a very small piece of the student pie - about 5-7%. That 5-7 % represents the elite kids with the big SAT scores who can somewhat afford the costs - even with scholarships mitigating those costs -of a pricey education. With much our population growth occurring with the hispanic sector, this piece of the pie is going to keep shrinking..........
Everything else then comes into play. A strong liberal arts program is a must and we fall woefully short on this count - which SMU understands and steps are being taken to bolster Dedman. Engineering has got lots of good stuff going on, Meadows is moving forward after getting rid of Carol Brandt, Cox needs to pick it up - Niemi is coasting, and we'll see about the Simmons school.
Research is extremely important and steps are being taken here - we just moved up in the rankings, but we have a long way to go. SMU is in tune with the need to increase the amount of research and obtain many more grants. Alumni contributions must continue to move up and yes, we have to fund a large additional number of Hunt and Presidential Scholarships as well as funding endowed chairs - which means the endowment must grow. By the way, the ongoing campaign is largely focused on this last area rather than infrastructure........

[friarwolf]

Here are the issues SMU faces to keep moving up in the ranks. First and foremost, we are fighting for a very small piece of the student pie - about 5-7%. That 5-7 % represents the elite kids with the big SAT scores who can somewhat afford the costs - even with scholarships mitigating those costs -of a pricey education re, rich white kids. With much our population growth occurring with the hispanic sector, this piece of the pie is going to keep shrinking..........
Everything else then comes into play. A strong liberal arts program is a must and we fall woefully short on this count - which SMU understands and steps are being taken to bolster Dedman. Engineering has got lots of good stuff going on, Meadows is moving forward after getting rid of Carol Brandt, Cox needs to pick it up - Niemi is coasting, and we'll see about the Simmons school.
Research is extremely important and steps are being taken here - we just moved up in the rankings, but we have a long way to go. SMU is in tune with the need to increase the amount of research and obtain many more grants. Alumni contributions must continue to move up and yes, we have to fund a large additional number of Hunt and Presidential Scholarships as well as funding endowed chairs - which means the endowment must grow. By the way, the ongoing campaign is largely focused on this last area rather than infrastructure........

[Samurai Stang]

An indoor practice facility would improve SMU's academic standing. One would allow for further experiments and research in the area of football.

[RednBlue11]

haha

an IPF is worth 3 sports in the rankings at least.

[smudubs]

First, this seems to have veered away from football talk, but that's ok. It's an interesting topic. Mrs. Dubs and I discuss this topic a lot. She and I both have two degrees from SMU and she is an adjunct professor there now. It is her opinion that in her particular department, SMU has fallen behind the curve. She has taught at UTD and she contends that for the most part her students there were smarter and more prepared for the rigorous demands of higher education. She also believes that NTSU better prepares students and actually focuses more on teaching than being caught up on rankings. I think her views stem from the fact that neither of us struggled through SMU. In fact, it was pretty easy. I don't think I could have done 42 hours while playing football and having a newborn at our "peer institutions."

Also, from my experience, there are a lot of faculty members in the law school who believe that Attanasio is focusing too much on rankings and is selling the legal education short.

The bottom line is this, to increase rankings our professors need to get off their lazy @$$es and do more cutting edge research. Also, we have to continue attracting top-notch students. Those things will improve the perception of our school nationally and will translate into improved rankings in the glossy magazines.

[smudubs]

And one point of clarification. Mrs. Dubs loves teaching at SMU and would not leave for any reason. She just believes there are places we can improve.

[StallionsModelT]

LOL. I'm sure there are a few kids who fit that description smudubs but I dated a chick who went to NTSU and she literally only went to class on test days and graduated w/ a 3.7. Its a glorified junior college and its students reflect that.

[NickSMU17]

May I ask what she teaches...?

I found that cox students are in general very well rounded and far ahead of any of the other business schools I have interviewed kids from... UT being 2nd best...

Also, my wife attended SMU law for a year and then transferred to a law school here in Chicago, a few spots behind SMU in the rankings, and found that in most cases she was far more prepared than the kids that started at her law school...

[couch 'em]

UTD has a wide variety of students - there are some high quality students who go there for their best disciplines (such as computer science) because they are no-nonsense and want their degree, not the "college experience", or they are international. They tend to be less well-rounded as individuals than an SMU student, however. That is perfect for code-monkeys who won't need to (or very often, can't) communicate well, or handle business aspects.

SMU is attempting (or was, 5-10 years ago) to capitalize on this by providing more business and management education in the engineering school, realizing that SMU grads aren't going to be tied to the engineering bench their whole career.

UNT, with the exception of music and RTF, is garbage. There are numerous companies who won't even interview UNT grads because their experience with them has been so horrible.

[Comet]

For those talking about Dedman, I can vouch for the history department as they are on the verge of making three hires this semester. The candidates are some very very impressive people, and if the administration gets who they want, SMU's history department (particularly the William Clements Center for Southwest Studies) will gain prestige almost over-night. Hell, part of the reason why I'm looking to apply at Duke, Chicago, and Arizona for a PhD program is because of certain professors who are actually being interviewed at SMU this semester for 3 major positions.

There are some interesting discussions and opinions here about UTD. I actually got my undergrad there and while some people say it's perfect for code-monkeys who don't give a crap about a social experience, that's a very very narrow-minded approach to the problem at SMU. Resorting to ad-hominems about a student population is doing absolutely nothing to fix the issues that SMU has with regards to science and technology. Keep in mind, UTD only exists because of SMU's neglect for science and technology. SMU's ignorance in the 60s created UTD, and the successes of that university in such a short amount of time should show people here the worth of such models.

[DanFreibergerForHeisman]

There are some interesting discussions and opinions here about UTD. I actually got my undergrad there and while some people say it's perfect for code-monkeys who don't give a crap about a social experience, that's a very very narrow-minded approach to the problem at SMU. Resorting to ad-hominems about a student population is doing absolutely nothing to fix the issues that SMU has with regards to science and technology. Keep in mind, UTD only exists because of SMU's neglect for science and technology. SMU's ignorance in the 60s created UTD, and the successes of that university in such a short amount of time should show people here the worth of such models.

Pye doing all he could to kill the Engineering School didn't help much either.

[PK]

SMU's ignorance in the 60s created UTD, and the successes of that university in such a short amount of time should show people here the worth of such models.

What are you basing that statement on. The fact is that during the 60s SMU was working with TI providing televised electrical/computer engineering courses that were being used at TI and other facilities in the area for their employee's continuing education. When the founders of what was initially a research institute decided to turn the assests of their research institute over to the state in 1969 to create UTD, it was a started as graduate program school only and did not have a true undergaduate program until 1990 when they had their first freshman class.

[Comet]

SMU's ignorance in the 60s created UTD, and the successes of that university in such a short amount of time should show people here the worth of such models.

What are you basing that statement on. The fact is that during the 60s SMU was working with TI providing televised electrical/computer engineering courses that were being used at TI and other facilities in the area for their employee's continuing education. When the founders of what was initially a research institute decided to turn the assests of their research institute over to the state in 1969 to create UTD, it was a started as graduate program school only and did not have a true undergaduate program until 1990 when they had their first freshman class.

I got most of this information from a professor of mine at SMU who's been here since the 70s. He pretty much said what you just summarized. However, he seemed to insinuate that the research institute created had some shot of being absorbed into SMU, but the strict focus on liberal arts didn't allow it to happen. That's been my understanding of the situation.