Dallas is BOOMING!

[NomAnor]

hehehehe and on that note im making my first trip to Dallas this year to watch SMu any good ideas on where to eat and catch the sights

[ponyboy]

Dallas better get off its [deleted] and fix its roads and public trans. They're embarrassing for the city.

We need to privatize public transportation: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=12543

and drop the DART Train altogether: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11608

[RednBlue11]

Dallas better get off its [deleted] and fix its roads and public trans. They're embarrassing for the city.

We need to privatize public transportation: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=12543

and drop the DART Train altogether: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11608

we need DART if Dallas has any hope of aspiring to have the kind of centralized, vibrant, and extremely profitable downtown like NYC, Chicago, London, Paris, etc do. (and as a result make dump-trucks of cash on tourism and tourism taxes)

1st thing they have to do is make it go places where people actually live and transport them to cultural centers of the city. it's worthless if you have to walk more than 2 blocks to anywhere you are going and if doesn't take you to major entertainment centers.

and I would point out that there is not one major public transit system in the WORLD that services a city the size of Dallas or greater. it generates rev for the city if it's managed well and installed correctly, no reason to mess that up. but don;t look at the CTA, it goes just about everywhere you need it too in the city but they're corrupt as hell...btw, not something unique to the public sector.

the benefit of having a well run PUBLIC transit system is that the revs go to the city where it can be re-invested into it's own infrastructure and programs (leader to lower taxes for the ave citizen?) where as a private transit system would not do that...and given the history of economic policy in the state I would doubt very seriously that said private company would pay jack-sh!t in taxes which would further erode any kind of residual/long term benefit for the city beyond mass transit which would become unaffordable very quickly for the people who use it the most. the second mass transit stops paying for itself in long term re-investment it becomes a blood sucker on the local economy.

the bottom line is that it's nice to throw [deleted] at the wall but i think there's probably a reason a private company hasn't made it stick yet in the 100+ yrs this county has had mass transit.

overall a wiser move in my mind is to pay competitive rates to management professionals who can make the system work and that have vision, just because Dallas owns it doesnt mean it shouldnt be run like and efficient private company.

[NomAnor]

I will let you in on a Houston secret if the smell of the plants gets to you just drink the water it numbs every thing

[NickSMU17]

You would rather not have Dart than be in Chicago's economic condition, but the libs on this board will tell you how great big government and entitlements have made Chicago a great place...

Ticking time bomb....

[RednBlue11]

You would rather not have Dart than be in Chicago's economic condition, but the libs on this board will tell you how great big government and entitlements have made Chicago a great place...

Ticking time bomb....

haha, you're right, the current DART is not preferable but to be honest DART blows cuz it's so under developed...and I have to say that the CTA is hemorrhaging cash because its been run by corrupt blood suckers for decades and it's falling apart

i have to agree tho that w/o the easy access to downtown and surrounding neighborhoods chicago would not be as dynamic and economically viable as it is today.

places like demon dogs would never have existed, and that's sad.

[NickSMU17]

Chicago is in debt due to big govn, entitlements, and extremely high taxes...it is a role model for how things should not be done...

No coincidence that it is run by most of the presidents friends and has been for years...

Big reason for me living in the suburbs and for wanting to leave the state entirely...

[RednBlue11]

Chicago is in debt due to big govn, entitlements, and extremely high taxes...it is a role model for how things should not be done...

No coincidence that it is run by most of the presidents friends and has been for years...

Big reason for me living in the suburbs and for wanting to leave the state entirely...

dont leave out evanston, highest sales tax in the country

in my mind stroger took a staggering giant and placed a trip wire just out of view w/ that last sales tax hike

[NickSMU17]

Illinois is the example for 2012 election

No job growth, failing home prices, high taxation, terrible schools, tons of debt....

[NickSMU17]

Unfornt. Can't do what I do down there....yet...

[ponyboy]

We need DART if Dallas has any hope of aspiring to have the kind of centralized, vibrant, and extremely profitable downtown like NYC, Chicago, London, Paris, etc do.

I hear you and agree in principle. But AT WHAT COST? Read the report I linked. Sure, some people profit -- but taxpayers get screwed.

I like this quote:

Transit advocates argue that rail transit loses money everywhere in the world, and the United States should not expect to do any better. In fact, rail transit earns a profit in Hong Kong and Tokyo, two cities that are far denser than anywhere in the United States outside of Manhattan. Beyond that, the idea that taxpayers in France, Germany, and other countries are foolish enough to subsidize what may be an obsolete form of travel does not justify America doing the same.

[RednBlue11]

We need DART if Dallas has any hope of aspiring to have the kind of centralized, vibrant, and extremely profitable downtown like NYC, Chicago, London, Paris, etc do.

I hear you and agree in principle. But AT WHAT COST? Read the report I linked. Sure, some people profit -- but taxpayers get screwed.

I did read it, it was full of conjecture about future possibilities that they could not quantify, the picture isn't very clear by looking backwards and ignoring the context of the 60's and 70's.

but what are they getting screwed by? their money is paid into a pot, not a specific program. the idea that there has to be a direct and significant beneficial result EVERY single single person equally who pays taxes is ridiculously far fetched. everyone wants to have a say in what their money does..guess what, they do...it's called republican government and if you dont like the people rep'ing you elect different people to manage your interests. this city is business friendly enough that i can't imagine that its hard to fine someone to manage the public interest well.

if the costs are too scary then long term benefit of urban growth and centralization in Dallas will be realized at a slower rate, plain and simple.

personally i am not afraid at all of investing massive quantities of money in the infrastructure of the city so that everyone can move around more efficiently and it looks better, which in my mind results in significant civic pride if i can say..."my city is better than your because of X"

i mean, look up the studies on how many trillions of dollars this country has made as a result of the HUGE investment in highways and interstates. if done properly (which is the part i am apprehensive about) DART is an extension of that improved efficiency in movement, and therefore improved productivity.

[ponyboy]

What you say makes sense. But, even if you don't like the Cato article, you cannot deny that it's a good question AT WHAT COST. There is a limit -- and you might put that limit in a different place than I would. But until we know the cost, there is no way to discuss the benefits.

[RednBlue11]

What you say makes sense. But, even if you don't like the Cato article, you cannot deny that it's a good question AT WHAT COST. There is a limit -- and you might put that limit in a different place than I would. But until we know the cost, there is no way to discuss the benefits.

okay...so the system doesn't make money for itself, they didn't seem to think of the possibility and likely reality of more economic production as a direct result of the ease of transport?

there isn't a significant long-term benefit for being able to take a train 8 miles in 45 min when you don't have a car vs. walking? that's the reality in densely populated urban environments where space has such a premium value.

admittedly dallas is in a diff position than most of those other cities because is is basically all suburbs and the lack of good urban planning for much of this cities history makes it more difficult to provide these services w/o significant spending

i would really like to see them put some numbers in their thesis. otherwise this is a philosophical debate that they are fueling w/o many quantifiable measurements to compare the benefits of either side.

perhaps DART is just too expensive for Dallas to make work properly and until another solution for rapid efficient transport comes along maybe Dallas i going to lag behind significantly.

[ponyboy]

You're right -- until some actual numbers are given -- that it's all merely conjecture. And that's on both sides. We just don't know if rail transportation is worth it. I suspect not, even if you could quantify pride of ownership. It amazes me that we allow the politicians to make such enormous and potentially financially devastating decisions for us.