The Sad Truth

[03Mustang]

I think there is a 50% chance that in 10 years SMU is done with football. The superconferences will be the new D1A and everyone else drops.

You also said there was a zero percent chance of TCU going to the Big East. Don't go apply for a job as a trader at UBS anytime soon.

[reddevil]

They can't play a game here every other weekend, and if you really believ that rutgers and or cuse bring NYC market, then we bring dallas market....

Super conferences want TV viewers in an area...Rutgers doesn bring anything but when they start playing Michigan they will....

Just as likely if we started playing our old rivals...

The stadium isnt filled because we are playing NW st....you were at TCU game werent you?

If we played TT, UT, Baylor, TCU, A&M...do you honestly believe we wouldnt draw 45k in the 5th biggest city in the country...

They know this, we know this...just need to put all the numbers down on paper...

You are missing the point with Rutgers and Syracuse, which is that a school does not have to be located in a city to deliver the city from a TV perspective. Just like the Big Ten thinks that Rutgers or Syracuse could delivery the NYC market even though they are not located in NYC. Applied to Dallas, UT, TAMU and even TCU can deliver the Dallas market, with UT and TAMU delivering it more than SMU could.

Also the stadium point is somewhat of a red herring. Its an overall representation of our how the SMU community feels about support SMU athletics. Sure, if we were in the BIG 12, then our stadium would be packed, with a significant portion of opposing fans. The point is that if you are talking about a 64 schools in the proposed big 4 AQ conferences, then you can find at least three, that show much more support to their athletic programs, that can also delivery the DFW market. Again, I wish it weren't the case, but unfortunately it is.

[Bergermeister]

This is why we will likely never be in a major conference ever again. Our own alumni and the greater Dallas area do not care about going to our games. This is why I have real doubts about SMU continuing to exist in D1A football. If we are stuck in a conference with UNT, Rice, Tulane, Arkansas State, etc you will see attendance fall to under 12K average for the season and we will never again compete at a high level. There ate posters here who laugh but I think it's a real possibility. I think this is why you are seeing the full court press by the administration. They know it's now or never and never is right around the corner. We are in no way a player in any realignment right now and I'd say there is a 5% chance we ever move above CUSA. Far more likely we are in a reformed Sun Belt. If that's the case I say we hang it up.

Anything on the plus side to report? At least be fair and balanced. You seem unbalanced.

[reddevil]

You guys act like its so crazy...

Here is a list of schools in AQ conferences that dont bring fans to games

USC
Miami
Northwestern
Vanderbilt
Duke
Wake Forest
Stanford
TCU---will not be sold out for Lo. Monroe this weekend...
Baylor

However their stadiums are usually packed because most are located in optimal locations and play great competition...

That might be true, but the biggest thing that you are overlooking is that all of those teams are already in. We are outside looking in, so the same rules do not apply. You could also raise a significant number of other differences, but the most glaring one is that we are on the outside looking in.

[reddevil]

I definitely think we could play football as an independent. Moreso now with BYU going indy and if UT does. We don't get any tv money from our conference anyway, so its really just an scheduling issue in October and November. Agree with Nick, our location is a huge benefit: easy access, fertle recruiting area, and lots of alums of midwest schools here. Schedule could look something like this:
September:
@Texas Tech
Illinois (good following, beatable team)
@Duke (BCS but very beatable)
Baylor
October:
@ Notre Dame
Bye week
Navy
BYU
November:
@Texas
Army
TCU
@Hawaii

Our area is fertile for everyone not named SMU. More of an example about how we don't bring the DFW market.

[NickSMU17]

I think you are underestimating the resources, location and upside....

If this was any other commodity you would be far more bullish....despite the regulatory environment...

[reddevil]

I find it amazing how we krappp on our chances of improving our status and applaud JJ for making us mediocre....

Should be opposite....Dont be critical about a university many of us couldnt get into now, whose national presence has grown leaps and bounds....we own by far the most valuable real estate in texas...we also have a presidential library, new basketball facilty, tons of $$$ pouring in...we couldnt be in a better place to grow as a university...Think SMU as U of Chicago or Northwestern in 20 years...It can happen...

Be critical about an overpaid coach not working hard enough and longer for a shtty school in the islands....

I think you are correct, we could be very similar to Northwestern and UC in twenty years. Both have great academic reputations, but one has a football team in a good conference and one has a DIII team and chose to focus its resources elsewhere. Both are schools with rich endowments and very proud alum. The point is, we are closer to becoming UC than NU.

Also, your Chicago references raise another interesting comparison. DePaul basketball. Its a decent school in the best basketball conference and most of Chicago couldn't care less about them. They hardly draw any fans and have very little, if any, TV presence.

[Water Pony]

I find it amazing how we krappp on our chances of improving our status and applaud JJ for making us mediocre....

Should be opposite....Dont be critical about a university many of us couldnt get into now, whose national presence has grown leaps and bounds....we own by far the most valuable real estate in texas...we also have a presidential library, new basketball facilty, tons of $$$ pouring in...we couldnt be in a better place to grow as a university...Think SMU as U of Chicago or Northwestern in 20 years...It can happen...

Be critical about an overpaid coach not working hard enough and longer for a shtty school in the islands....

I think you are correct, we could be very similar to Northwestern and UC in twenty years. Both have great academic reputations, but one has a football team in a good conference and one has a DIII team and chose to focus its resources elsewhere. Both are schools with rich endowments and very proud alum. The point is, we are closer to becoming UC than NU.

Also, your Chicago references raise another interesting comparison. DePaul basketball. Its a decent school in the best basketball conference and most of Chicago couldn't care less about them. They hardly draw any fans and have very little, if any, TV presence.

FYI, DePaul does not have an on campus BB venue for the Men. They play near O'Hare Airport in Rosemont. And, when DePaul was competitive, they did draw and gots lots of media coverage.

BTW, Northwestern is drawing better in Evanston with a competitive team that advertises itself as Chicago's Big Ten school.

[NickSMU17]

Agree with water pony.


Most of my high school football coaches were guys that played in front of no one on terrrible northwestern teams...

They have since rededicated themselves to athletics and are doing well...

We can do the same...first step is to dominate your competition which we aren't doing yet...

[reddevil]

I find it amazing how we krappp on our chances of improving our status and applaud JJ for making us mediocre....

Should be opposite....Dont be critical about a university many of us couldnt get into now, whose national presence has grown leaps and bounds....we own by far the most valuable real estate in texas...we also have a presidential library, new basketball facilty, tons of $$$ pouring in...we couldnt be in a better place to grow as a university...Think SMU as U of Chicago or Northwestern in 20 years...It can happen...

Be critical about an overpaid coach not working hard enough and longer for a shtty school in the islands....

I think you are correct, we could be very similar to Northwestern and UC in twenty years. Both have great academic reputations, but one has a football team in a good conference and one has a DIII team and chose to focus its resources elsewhere. Both are schools with rich endowments and very proud alum. The point is, we are closer to becoming UC than NU.

Also, your Chicago references raise another interesting comparison. DePaul basketball. Its a decent school in the best basketball conference and most of Chicago couldn't care less about them. They hardly draw any fans and have very little, if any, TV presence.

FYI, DePaul does not have an on campus BB venue for the Men. They play near O'Hare Airport in Rosemont. And, when DePaul was competitive, they did draw and gots lots of media coverage.

BTW, Northwestern is drawing better in Evanston with a competitive team that advertises itself as Chicago's Big Ten school.

I am well aware of all of that. Northwestern draws well because of its alum in the area and because of Evanston and the teams who they play against who come to their games. But they dont sell out unless they are playing a major team that travels well. Also, despite all of their successes, their football team does not have a contract with a legit network in Chicago that shows all of their football games (which has been the case for quite some time, aside from the recent BIG10 Network venture).

Depaul hasn't been competitive for around twenty years. But that further illustrates my example. Its the local school that has had at least some history of success (that uses local athletes), but it still goes virtually unnoticed. Meaning it doesn't bring the Chicago market. Applied to SMU, from the perspective of the AQ decision makers, if SMU were to be included, wouldn't they just become a doormat without any real support? I certainly hope it wouldn't be the case, but it would be hard not to at least consider it if you are an AQ decision maker and ultimately decide to use another team for purposes of entry into the Dallas market, akin to what ND would be to the Chicago market.

[NickSMU17]

ND is national market....

Depaul's reason for not getting attendence is 2 fold...1 rosemont sucks, (except for muvico), and 2) they suck and arent getting better....

If depaul would recommit to basketball they could very well get back to the top of big east...

We are a draw b/c we have great resources and can improve more overnight.

Have a great location that people want to visit, have huge alumni bases of all schools we could possibly play. You don't think Kansas would love to have DFW alumni events correlating with SMU KU football games....

I think your reasoning of doormat is actually the opposite. Schools like Texas would be concerned that we could easily become the USC or Miami of the conference and would prefer not to tempt fate.

Overall, its not going to 4 x 16, not possible, and even if it does we will be fine...Grab the next best 16 and become the next best conference...dominate and make your case to be included like Boise, TCU, Hawaii...

[SoCal_Pony]

USC does NOT have attendance issues.

They have led the PAC-10 in attendance maybe 8 of the last 10 years, averaging around 80,000 per game.

A school like Wash St has huge attendance issues, relatively speaking much greater than SMU.

[reddevil]

ND is national market....

Depaul's reason for not getting attendence is 2 fold...1 rosemont sucks, (except for muvico), and 2) they suck and arent getting better....

If depaul would recommit to basketball they could very well get back to the top of big east...

We are a draw b/c we have great resources and can improve more overnight.

Have a great location that people want to visit, have huge alumni bases of all schools we could possibly play. You don't think Kansas would love to have DFW alumni events correlating with SMU KU football games....

I think your reasoning of doormat is actually the opposite. Schools like Texas would be concerned that we could easily become the USC or Miami of the conference and would prefer not to tempt fate.

Overall, its not going to 4 x 16, not possible, and even if it does we will be fine...Grab the next best 16 and become the next best conference...dominate and make your case to be included like Boise, TCU, Hawaii...

If we are such a draw, than why aren't we doing it? And who exactly are we are draw too? The alumni? Their attendance would suggest otherwise. Dallas fans? Their attendance would also suggest otherwise. AQ conferences, then why are non of them interested. Dallas is great and is only growing, I agree with that. But unfortunately SMU does not equal Dallas, which means there are other ways that AQ conferences can utilize the Dallas market without having to subsidize SMU. Again, I truly want to see us getting into an AQ conference, it would be great for all aspects of the school, but my point is that the ESPN article, flawed as it may be, does reveal some ugly truths about the state of SMU's athletics and what could very well be their national perception. Which means that if we are left of future AQ expansion whether it be 4 x 16 or some other variation of expansion and are left in a watered down grouping of CUSA and MW teams, the benefits of having a D1 football team will become so small that dropping down a level or the cancellation of our program may be an option.

[reddevil]

USC does NOT have attendance issues.

They have led the PAC-10 in attendance maybe 8 of the last 10 years, averaging around 80,000 per game.

A school like Wash St has huge attendance issues, relatively speaking much greater than SMU.

I think some are confusing "sell out" with attendance issues.

[EastStang]

I think the other issue is Texas Recruiting. If you want to recruit in Texas do you want to play games in Lubbock and Waco, or Dallas, Ft. Worth and Houston? Obviously games against UT are hyped all over the state, but if UT is not on the menu, why would you choose TT or Baylor over SMU or UH? I think that is why Baylor, TT, ISU are having hissy fits right now. UT looks at TT as the annoying little brother who cries, "can I play, too". Baylor and ISU have no real reason for AQ status. It all depends on what conferences are expanding, how much they expand and what their goals are. We may end up in the only second tier conference with the likes of Baylor, ISU, UH, AFA, Boise, UTEP, Memphis, Tulsa, USM, UCF, and ECU. And if TT is homeless add them and take out UTEP.