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Bamba FallModerators: PonyPride, SmooPower
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so in other words give the guy a 4-5 year scholarship and HOPE you get 1-2 good years out of him like we HOPE we will with Rack. And some of you wonder why it always appears our WAC opponents are so much more mature and experienced. BTW the greatest development project in SMU History was Jon Koncak-he averaged 28 ppg and 14 rebounds a game as a high school senior -hardly ineffective. I am just always leary of a "Project" when not a single person on this board can tell me whether he scored 20 ppg or .02 ppg either at his high school or in AAU play. Also, can someone confirm that he was at Oak Hill last year. I saw one report that suggested he has played at Plano West or a some Plano high school.
Stallion,
Give some credence to those other than jsut the scouting services. There are some people who have actually seen him play and, in addtion, know the coaches.. both AAU and SMU. He did play at Oak Hill, not much after arriving in late Oct. Howver, you do not get to Oak Hill without prior merit. Let's see what he does this year and evaluate. Bamba did not play in the Peach Jam because of a sore back. That was a good thing for SMU as it did not give other coaches a "look". One additional positive ....Bamba is left handed....which means he is even a better shot blocker (on right handed shooters) SMU...2nd to None
i certainly haven't given up on Rack. What if he gives us two really good years? We aren't getting guys who are offered by top 10 programs with the possible exception of BHop and he cost us 2 scholarships. If I thought a player had the ability to give us 2 good years as a top quality starter, I sign him. There aren't a lot of 7' guys who have any athletic ability. Why was Fall on Team Texas if he isn't any good?
I've seen that he also scored something like 4 points 6 rebs 2 blocks at the Ellis Davis AAU Tournament. I've also seen what purports to be a scout's evaluation of Fall as follows: Inside C+ Outside F+ HN(?) D Def A Reb C POT(I guess potential) . He is rated by almost every service I've see as long term project who is not yet polished. Hey I realize that teams that don't recruit quality have to take a chance on potential sleepers. But just so you remember that is what he is. Just so you remember the next time I hear someone say that Cave-in couldn't coach the fabulous talent he inherited from Rossley or Dement "had the talent to go to the NCAA tournament but blew it" that many of you simply don't know what the hell you are taking about. SMU has consistently had POOR NCAA Football talent and nothing more than mediocre NCAA BB talent. Until that changes we'll be firing coaches every 5 years or so.
I dont have any inside info so I wont join this argument, but i did find a few tidbits out on the net. I found an apparently unbiased ranking that has Bamba ranked as the #177 player in the nation out of 450 ranked players (www.galaxy-of-stars.net). It is nice list because it shows alot of players and is up to date with where they have commited. #177 doesn't knock your socks off, but anything in the Top 200 is a legit D-1 prospect. Guys ranked at or lower on the same list have commited to: UCLA, Oklahoma, Wisconsin, Florida and Arkansas to name a few. If this guy is all potential, he must have quite a bit of it.
Also, everybody realizes Oak Hill is a great program, but realize that the starting front line for Oak Hill last year was all seniors, and big time talent who have headed to Lousiville, Indiana and Syracuse respectively. It is no disgrace whatsover that Fall did not crack that lineup as a junior, new to US basketball. This year as a senior we will see what he can do in the stats. He will be playing this year at Oak Hill with a power forward headed for Illinois. Thats good competition in practice for sure. This is sounding more and more like a great prospect for SMU.
Re:
The A grade for Defense might just tell us what we needed to know about why Tubbs wanted him. SMU desperately needs some defensive presence in the post. We have lacked it for years. Even if Fall turns out to be a one dimensional player, would that be so bad? Several people have compared him to Rack because he is an international player who plays center. I'm guessing they are basically opposite abilities. Racks potential was always on offense, not defense. Its much more of a risky proposition that a guys offense will not develop at the college level. If Bambas skill is defense and shot blocking, that is more dependable. Also, this guy has a great chance to develop between playing for Oak Hill and Team Texas, and with his dad a scout for the Mavericks, you can bet he will get plenty of exposure to off season work outs with local pros. This might be called a gamble, but the odds aren't bad and the upside is larger than most.
Re:
I personally think Dement wasted Rack his freshman year, he should have red-shirted, but I guess Mike needed the body…. all the more reason, IMO, to have gone JC. OP, I hope he does contributes these next 2 years, but the fact is half his SMU career is now over and so far he has averaged 1.3 rebounds and 1.4 points per game so he is going to have to have an exceptional final 2 years justify our investment in him. Me, I would rather invest in 2 JC big bodies over the same 4-year period who can play some D and rebound for us. 2 years ago, that strategy just might have gotten us to the NIT.
The Ellis Davis classic is not a good reference point for what Bamba may be able to do. At that point in time, high school was still in session, and he had JUST joined his AAU team.
Furthermore, the AAU team that he was on, Team Texas, is stacked with probably about 8 or 9 legitimate division 1 college prospects. For example, you could throw David Robinson or Karl Malone onto an allstar game(or olympic game), and they might have 4 points and 6 rebounds. One other point....... AAU ball is dominated by guards. They are trying to get themselves noticed by colleges, so they usually do not give up the ball. There is very little structure, and virtually to no post up action during the summers. Big men always complain about that(legitimately). A better guage than all of that would be to look at what Bamba does over the course of an entire high school season. I'm not saying that he is anywhere close to NBA potential right now, not by any means, but his high school season this year will be more indicative of his talent than anything else up to this point.
Just stop the arguing, Stallion. You have not made any point except that there is no information on Bamba on the internet , and thus, must not be any good or is a project at best. No one on this board has stated any of our recruits is going to come in next year and be a huge factor.
We are simply happy to have one of the best 7' 1" seniors in the country signing with SMU!! Leave it at that. SMU...2nd to None
Re:[quote="Stallion"]I'm posting anything I can find on the internet-you're welcome to add an example of where he has excelled at any time.[/quote]
You can stop looking, I watch a lot of AAU and summer league basketball, and I didn’t see anything statistically impressive from Bamba. He played on a team that didn’t share the ball much, and was dominated by its guards. His playing time for Oak Hill’s Gold team was also fairly limited, and from the box scores I’ve seen his biggest offensive output was only about 5 points. Oak Hill’s coach seemed to leave the stars in even during blowouts, probably to keep up their scoring averages. Lets chat about Oak Hill for a moment, and perhaps putting things in context will clear up a few misconceptions here. Oak Hill Academy in Mouth of Wilson, Virginia has 2 separate varsity basketball teams, the Red team plays primarily against other east coast prep schools in Virginia and North Carolina, with the occasional game as far away as West Virginia or Kentucky. The Red team is no slouch, they were 26-5 last year, while playing against some elite programs including Mount Zion, Hargrave, Fork Union, and Laurinburg. The Red team, however, can’t touch the Oak Hill Gold team, which is comprised entirely of recruited players from around the US, and occasionally overseas. Oak Hills Gold team was undefeated last year and named the 2004 High School national champions by USAToday, Street & Smith, USAHoops, and the US Prep Basketball Foundation, and a few other smaller organizations that put out their own high school rankings. Their record last season was either 29-0, if you only count games against other high school aged teams, or 38-0 if you include games against prep schools with players beyond high school age, and their victory over the Italian Under-21 National Team. The Gold team plays half their games in Virginia, North Carolina, and Kentucky, but they also played in tournaments in L.A. and Hawaii last year, and will play twice in California, once in Oregon, and a tournament in New Jersey, this year. The Gold teams starting five last year consisted of: PG- Rajon Rondo, 6’2â€, signed with Kentucky. SG- KC Rivers, 6’4â€, Top-100 Junior last year, now committed to Clemson. WF-Joshua Smith, 6’9â€, First round draft pick of the Atlanta Hawks. PF- Dayshawn Wright, 6’7â€, 250 lbs. Signed with Syracuse. C- Brian Johnson, 6’9â€, Signed with Louisville. Rivers started last season for an undefeated team, but he isn’t likely to keep his spot on this years team, because Oak Hill has recruited 2 of the countries best shooters, Eric Devendorf (Committed to Syracuse) and Jamont Gordon (Uncommitted, but leaning towards Tennessee.) One of the shooting guards could move to the point, but Tywon Lawson is one of the countries top-20 juniors, and he wont give up the starting point guard job without a fight. Rivers could conceivably play small forward, but 2 other juniors, 6’9†Kevin Durant and 6’6†Anthony Wright both are expected to compete for that spot. Durant is already drawing comparisons to Josh Smith, he can play inside or outside, and he’ll be one of the top-10 players in next years senior class. He’s a candidate to hop straight to the NBA. Wright is a muscular player, a power player who also has the skills to play on the perimeter. He’s already being recruited by most of the ACC and Big East schools. Senior Alex Smith (6’6â€, committed to Furman) is also hoping to see time at the wing forward, but he may already be squeezed out at that position. David Palmer (6’8â€, committed to Illinois) can play either forward or center. If he starts at center, then Bamba rides the pine again. If Bamba starts and Palmer plays the big forward spot, that would leave Durant at small forward and probably Gordon at 2 and Lawson at point. That means Devendorf, Rivers, and Wright, three top caliber recruits, would be coming off the bench. Smith, a senior who already has a scholarship to a lower level D-1 school, will be lucky to see the court at all, and Donatas Visockis, a 6’9†post who played regular backup minutes last year, might be left out in the cold. This isn’t a new situation at Oak Hill, several times in the past good players have had to leave because the coach recruited someone better, and they weren’t going to get playing time if they stayed. Isiah Swann played for Oak Hill until Rondo arrived, and then he transferred to Hargrave. Swann signed with Florida State, and is expected to play extensively as a freshman. Bouboucar Coly, a 6’10†forward originally from Senegal, left Oak Hill for Laurinburg Prep, because he knew he wasn’t going to beat out Johnson. He’s now a freshman at Xavier. SMU recruited Coly last year, but he picked the Musketeers after his visit to Cinncinatti. Laurinburg is another prep school powerhouse. They actually have 3 varsity teams, Laurinburg Charter, a fairly normal high school team, Laurinburg Institute, for high school age recruited players, and Laurinburg Prep, which includes a few high school aged players, but also several players who finished high school but couldn’t academically qualify for a D-1 scholarship. Laurinburg Institute was probably the tallest high school team in the world last year, with 8 players between 6’7†and 7’3â€. They lost to Oak Hill 3 times. Laurinberg Prep went 40-2 and had 12 players who signed with D-1 schools. They lost to Oak Hill 73-59. From the box scores I’ve seen it looks like Bamba played about 5 minutes per game last year and only averaged about 2-3 points per game. He wasn’t doing it against “players a foot shorter†though. No one agrees to play Oak Hill unless they have a serious squad of their own. Off the top of my head I can give you a quick look at some of the other schools Oak Hill played, and the big men who played for them. Besides Coly, Laurinburg had Longar Longar, a 6’10 center who signed with Oklahoma (recruited by our own Jimmy Tubbs while he was there), Richard Dorsey, 6’8â€, signed with Memphis, and Shawne Williams, also 6’8†and also signed with Memphis, but he failed to qualify academically and is back at Laurinburg this year. Bonner Academy started a front line of 7’0†Jeral Davis, 6’9†300 lb. Maurice Williams, and 6’11†Ellis Autry. Lanier High of Jackson Miss was led by 6’9†forward Charles Rhodes, he signed with Mississippi State. Mount Zion’s lineup included 6’9 forward Mohamed Tangara who signed with Arizona, and 6’11 center Shawn Taggart who signed with Iowa State. In a different thread about crooked AAU teams, someone else mentioned the now infamous Rush brothers from Kansas City. Their youngest brother, Brandon, is now a senior at Mount Zion. He’s a 6’7†small forward, and is considered one of the top recruits in the country. Cincinnatti Moeller was led last year by 6’10 Andrew Brockman (signed with North Carolina State) and 6’9 Josh Duncan (Signed with Xavier) Shortly after losing to Oak Hill, Los Angeles Westchester was banned from post-season play, and 6’9†Amir Johnson was suspended for a year, because of recruiting violations involved in Johnsons transfer from Mater Dei. Johnson is still suspended, and is talking about entering the NBA draft, even though he has given a verbal commitment to Louisville. Robert Swift, a 7’1†center who has transferred more times than I can count, might also have been at Westchester at that point, but I don’t think he played in that game. Swift is now at a Bakersfield, and has given a verbal commitment to USC. At the same tournament, Oak Hill also defeated Mater Dei, a private school led by 6’8†Marcel Jones, an Oregon State signee, and 6’7†freshman Taylor King. King gave a verbal commitment to attend UCLA, when he was only 14. 7’1†freshman Alex Jacobson played just a few minutes against Oak Hill last year, but is expected to start for Mater Dei this season. DeSean White, the 6’8†forward from Cardinal Daugherty (Philadelphia) signed with Providence. Oak Hill also played Our Savior and Trinity Lutheran of Philadelphia, teams featuring 6’8†250 lb. bruisers Juan Palacios (signed with Louisville) and Stanley Branch (signed with UTEP). Laurynas Mikaulkas, a 6’9†Lithuanian center from The Blue Ridge school, has committed to Tennessee, where he will be a teammate of 6’10 Jackie Butler, from Coastal Christian. 6’10†Dwight Howard of Southwest Christian in Atlanta, was the first player taken in the NBA draft, going to the Orlando Magic. 6’9†forward Davis Nwankwo from Georgetown Prep passed on scholarship offers from Arizona and Georgia Tech, to sign with Vanderbilt. Hargrave Military wasn’t as tall last year as they usually are, but they did have 6’8†Emanuel Willis (signed with USC) and 6’7†Norm Plummer (signed with Dayton.) That’s all I can think of right now., but it gives you an idea of the context in which Oak Hill, and Bamba, compete. Elite programs like Oak Hill, Mount Zion, and Laurinburg Prep aren’t high school teams. They’re Nike sponsored, semi-pro, traveling teams for kids in the Under-19 age bracket. They have 2 real reasons for existing, they provide an intensive and often isolated academic environment for top level players who need to focus more on school work to become eligible for Div. 1 scholarships. And, they’re walking advertisements for the companies that sponsor them, and pay for their equipment and travel expenses. For a young player like Bamba, there is no better developmental environment. Every practice and every game he will be working with and against the best players his age, player who will be going on to top college programs, and the NBA. You cant look at his statistics and compare them to someone at a Texas public high school, the environments aren’t comparable. If Bamba can even making the starting five at Oak Hill, I’m going to be seriously impressed. Incidentally, if this sounds like I’m a fan of the prep school system, I’m definitely not. A lot of these schools have been involved in very shady recruiting practices, and I really don’t like the professionallizing of the high school game, which is the direction things seem to be taking. Even when it brings us classic games like Akron St. Vincent (Lebron James) vs. Oak Hill (Carmelo Anthony) on ESPN, I think there is something wrong with recruiting kids that age and making them into semi-professionals. In regards to Bamba specifically, the best I’ve seen him play was in a pickup game with our players during his recruiting visit. He’s as skinny as a pencil, and his offense is raw, but he is mobile and has a tremendous wingspan. He covers a lot of space defensively and alters or blocks a lot of shots. He needs to get bigger, but he’s already gained 25 pounds after just one year in the US, so he’s headed in the right direction. He’s a project, a redshirt possibility, but a guy with potential. If the guy didn’t bring something to the table, he wouldn’t be on Oak Hills Gold team, it would be easy enough to push him down to the Red team, and recruit someone else to take his place. Oak Hill's first game is one month away. Lets just wait and see how the guy does. Try not to choke on the Kool-Aid.
Smith, a senior who already has a scholarship to a lower level D-1 school, will be lucky to see the court at all, and Donatas Visockis, a 6’9†post who played regular backup minutes last year, might be left out in the cold.
This isn’t a new situation at Oak Hill, several times in the past good players have had to leave because the coach recruited someone better, and they weren’t going to get playing time if they stayed. Isiah Swann played for Oak Hill until Rondo arrived, and then he transferred to Hargrave. Swann signed with Florida State, and is expected to play extensively as a freshman. Bouboucar Coly, a 6’10†forward originally from Senegal, left Oak Hill for Laurinburg Prep, because he knew he wasn’t going to beat out Johnson. He’s now a freshman at Xavier. SMU recruited Coly last year, but he picked the Musketeers after his visit to Cinncinatti. Laurinburg is another prep school powerhouse. They actually have 3 varsity teams, Laurinburg Charter, a fairly normal high school team, Laurinburg Institute, for high school age recruited players, and Laurinburg Prep, which includes a few high school aged players, but also several players who finished high school but couldn’t academically qualify for a D-1 scholarship. Laurinburg Institute was probably the tallest high school team in the world last year, with 8 players between 6’7†and 7’3â€. They lost to Oak Hill 3 times. Laurinberg Prep went 40-2 and had 12 players who signed with D-1 schools. They lost to Oak Hill 73-59. From the box scores I’ve seen it looks like Bamba played about 5 minutes per game last year and only averaged about 2-3 points per game. He wasn’t doing it against “players a foot shorter†though. No one agrees to play Oak Hill unless they have a serious squad of their own. Off the top of my head I can give you a quick look at some of the other schools Oak Hill played, and the big men who played for them. Besides Coly, Laurinburg had Longar Longar, a 6’10 center who signed with Oklahoma (recruited by our own Jimmy Tubbs while he was there), Richard Dorsey, 6’8â€, signed with Memphis, and Shawne Williams, also 6’8†and also signed with Memphis, but he failed to qualify academically and is back at Laurinburg this year. Bonner Academy started a front line of 7’0†Jeral Davis, 6’9†300 lb. Maurice Williams, and 6’11†Ellis Autry. Lanier High of Jackson Miss was led by 6’9†forward Charles Rhodes, he signed with Mississippi State. Mount Zion’s lineup included 6’9 forward Mohamed Tangara who signed with Arizona, and 6’11 center Shawn Taggart who signed with Iowa State. In a different thread about crooked AAU teams, someone else mentioned the now infamous Rush brothers from Kansas City. Their youngest brother, Brandon, is now a senior at Mount Zion. He’s a 6’7†small forward, and is considered one of the top recruits in the country. Cincinnatti Moeller was led last year by 6’10 Andrew Brockman (signed with North Carolina State) and 6’9 Josh Duncan (Signed with Xavier) Shortly after losing to Oak Hill, Los Angeles Westchester was banned from post-season play, and 6’9†Amir Johnson was suspended for a year, because of recruiting violations involved in Johnsons transfer from Mater Dei. Johnson is still suspended, and is talking about entering the NBA draft, even though he has given a verbal commitment to Louisville. Robert Swift, a 7’1†center who has transferred more times than I can count, might also have been at Westchester at that point, but I don’t think he played in that game. Swift is now at a Bakersfield, and has given a verbal commitment to USC. At the same tournament, Oak Hill also defeated Mater Dei, a private school led by 6’8†Marcel Jones, an Oregon State signee, and 6’7†freshman Taylor King. King gave a verbal commitment to attend UCLA, when he was only 14. 7’1†freshman Alex Jacobson played just a few minutes against Oak Hill last year, but is expected to start for Mater Dei this season. DeSean White, the 6’8†forward from Cardinal Daugherty (Philadelphia) signed with Providence. Oak Hill also played Our Savior and Trinity Lutheran of Philadelphia, teams featuring 6’8†250 lb. bruisers Juan Palacios (signed with Louisville) and Stanley Branch (signed with UTEP). Laurynas Mikaulkas, a 6’9†Lithuanian center from The Blue Ridge school, has committed to Tennessee, where he will be a teammate of 6’10 Jackie Butler, from Coastal Christian. 6’10†Dwight Howard of Southwest Christian in Atlanta, was the first player taken in the NBA draft, going to the Orlando Magic. 6’9†forward Davis Nwankwo from Georgetown Prep passed on scholarship offers from Arizona and Georgia Tech, to sign with Vanderbilt. Hargrave Military wasn’t as tall last year as they usually are, but they did have 6’8†Emanuel Willis (signed with USC) and 6’7†Norm Plummer (signed with Dayton.) That’s all I can think of right now., but it gives you an idea of the context in which Oak Hill, and Bamba, compete. Elite programs like Oak Hill, Mount Zion, and Laurinburg Prep aren’t high school teams. They’re Nike sponsored, semi-pro, traveling teams for kids in the Under-19 age bracket. They have 2 real reasons for existing, they provide an intensive and often isolated academic environment for top level players who need to focus more on school work to become eligible for Div. 1 scholarships. And, they’re walking advertisements for the companies that sponsor them, and pay for their equipment and travel expenses. For a young player like Bamba, there is no better developmental environment. Every practice and every game he will be working with and against the best players his age, player who will be going on to top college programs, and the NBA. You cant look at his statistics and compare them to someone at a Texas public high school, the environments aren’t comparable. If Bamba can even making the starting five at Oak Hill, I’m going to be seriously impressed. Incidentally, if this sounds like I’m a fan of the prep school system, I’m definitely not. A lot of these schools have been involved in very shady recruiting practices, and I really don’t like the professionallizing of the high school game, which is the direction things seem to be taking. Even when it brings us classic games like Akron St. Vincent (Lebron James) vs. Oak Hill (Carmelo Anthony) on ESPN, I think there is something wrong with recruiting kids that age and making them into semi-professionals. In regards to Bamba specifically, the best I’ve seen him play was in a pickup game with our players during his recruiting visit. He’s as skinny as a pencil, and his offense is raw, but he is mobile and has a tremendous wingspan. He covers a lot of space defensively and alters or blocks a lot of shots. He needs to get bigger, but he’s already gained 25 pounds after just one year in the US, so he’s headed in the right direction. He’s a project, a redshirt possibility, but a guy with potential. If the guy didn’t bring something to the table, he wouldn’t be on Oak Hills Gold team, it would be easy enough to push him down to the Red team, and recruit someone else to take his place. Oak Hillâ€s first game is one month away. Lets just wait and see how the guy does. Try not to choke on the Kool-Aid.
DeSean White, the 6’8†forward from Cardinal Daugherty (Philadelphia) signed with Providence. Oak Hill also played Our Savior and Trinity Lutheran of Philadelphia, teams featuring 6’8†250 lb. bruisers Juan Palacios (signed with Louisville) and Stanley Branch (signed with UTEP).
Laurynas Mikaulkas, a 6’9†Lithuanian center from The Blue Ridge school, has committed to Tennessee, where he will be a teammate of 6’10 Jackie Butler, from Coastal Christian. 6’10†Dwight Howard of Southwest Christian in Atlanta, was the first player taken in the NBA draft, going to the Orlando Magic. 6’9†forward Davis Nwankwo from Georgetown Prep passed on scholarship offers from Arizona and Georgia Tech, to sign with Vanderbilt. Hargrave Military wasn’t as tall last year as they usually are, but they did have 6’8†Emanuel Willis (signed with USC) and 6’7†Norm Plummer (signed with Dayton.) That’s all I can think of right now., but it gives you an idea of the context in which Oak Hill, and Bamba, compete. Elite programs like Oak Hill, Mount Zion, and Laurinburg Prep aren’t high school teams. They’re Nike sponsored, semi-pro, traveling teams for kids in the Under-19 age bracket. They have 2 real reasons for existing, they provide an intensive and often isolated academic environment for top level players who need to focus more on school work to become eligible for Div. 1 scholarships. And, they’re walking advertisements for the companies that sponsor them, and pay for their equipment and travel expenses. For a young player like Bamba, there is no better developmental environment. Every practice and every game he will be working with and against the best players his age, player who will be going on to top college programs, and the NBA. You cant look at his statistics and compare them to someone at a Texas public high school, the environments aren’t comparable. If Bamba can even making the starting five at Oak Hill, I’m going to be seriously impressed. Incidentally, if this sounds like I’m a fan of the prep school system, I’m definitely not. A lot of these schools have been involved in very shady recruiting practices, and I really don’t like the professionallizing of the high school game, which is the direction things seem to be taking. Even when it brings us classic games like Akron St. Vincent (Lebron James) vs. Oak Hill (Carmelo Anthony) on ESPN, I think there is something wrong with recruiting kids that age and making them into semi-professionals. In regards to Bamba specifically, the best I’ve seen him play was in a pickup game with our players during his recruiting visit. He’s as skinny as a pencil, and his offense is raw, but he is mobile and has a tremendous wingspan. He covers a lot of space defensively and alters or blocks a lot of shots. He needs to get bigger, but he’s already gained 25 pounds after just one year in the US, so he’s headed in the right direction. He’s a project, a redshirt possibility, but a guy with potential. If the guy didn’t bring something to the table, he wouldn’t be on Oak Hills Gold team, it would be easy enough to push him down to the Red team, and recruit someone else to take his place. Oak Hillâ€s first game is one month away. Lets just wait and see how the guy does. Try not to choke on the Kool-Aid.
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