SMU to Big East - ramifications for bball

[skyscraper]

For the moment, it seems SMU could be among the schools invited to a new Big East.
What would this mean for our hoops program?
Seems Doh already has made some inroads in NY area with recruiting. Would it get stronger?
Another given would be strong walk-up crowds for Moody games featuring G-town and the like.

Who wants to look into their crystal ball? Certainly doing it enough over on fball board.

[goldenstang]

While the Big East may be weakened with the loss of Pitt and Syracuse they still have 9 other teams that made the NCAA tournament. I think recruiting would drastically improve. We would be able to offer local kids something that no one else in our area would be able to offer them and that is a chance to play in the Big East. I'm sure we would land a lot more games on national tv from this as well. It would prob take 3-4 years for us to get our overall talent level up to compete but I think it would be a great move.

[hoopmanx]

We don't have the infrastructure in place, see admin, admissions, majors, to compete at a high level in the Big East in hoops. This isn't just me, it's several ex-assistants who scoff at the notion. The Big East as a conference, routinely recruits kids that we just haven't been able to touch in 30 years. The prospect pool in hoops is a very different demographic, even profile, than football.

Currently, we aren't allowed to get after kids w/6 schools in 4 years, and a paid transcript from a diploma mill, who had someone sit for him at standardized tests. A police record for street cred always helps etc. That's Big East recruiting. These kids aren't held to any academic standard once in school either.

I'm all for upgrading competition, but we have one hand tied behind our back in Big East hoops.

[1983 Cotton Bowl]

But perhaps getting blasted in BE play for a season or two would be a wakeup call regarding the recruiting issues you mention. Maybe that's what this program needs. I don't think Orsini is the type of guy who would just sit back and watch us go 0-15 in conference without trying to do something about it.

I'm not one of those who just wants to open the floodgates to any iliterate non-qualifier out there. But I look at programs like Duke, UNC, Stanford, Vandy, Notre Dame, etc. that have had success in the toughest conferences in the country while still maintaining a good academic reputation. I'm not saying they actually have tough standards for their BB players, but they at least give that impression. No one looks at Duke and Notre Dame and says "they're good because they recruit a bunch of thugs." That indicates to me (and I'm certainly no expert) that there must be a way.

[hoopmanx]

But perhaps getting blasted in BE play for a season or two would be a wakeup call regarding the recruiting issues you mention. Maybe that's what this program needs. I don't think Orsini is the type of guy who would just sit back and watch us go 0-15 in conference without trying to do something about it.

I'm not one of those who just wants to open the floodgates to any iliterate non-qualifier out there. But I look at programs like Duke, UNC, Stanford, Vandy, Notre Dame, etc. that have had success in the toughest conferences in the country while still maintaining a good academic reputation. I'm not saying they actually have tough standards for their BB players, but they at least give that impression. No one looks at Duke and Notre Dame and says "they're good because they recruit a bunch of thugs." That indicates to me (and I'm certainly no expert) that there must be a way.

It can be done, but it requires dramatic policy change, which I imagine will be met w/opposition, Schools like UNC/Duke/Vandy have hoops majors, backdoor admissions etc. To get it done, we have step up administratively in huge ways. Its not that SMU can't be a power in the Big East, we just have to move a glacier to operate on the level of the hoops schools. Straight up, there isn't a kid on Marquette that SMU can recruit. West Virginia can take anything breathing. Same w/Gtown, St Johns and lol @ Cincy

[RGV Pony]

Maybe doh can leak being contacted for other jobs and/ or make waves to bolt each year if such changes aren't made ?

[S....M....U]

it would obviously be huge

[S....M....U]

if we get to go BE, and even if it's only for a short time, it will definitely boost our bball and football to a new level, opening up new recruiting markets/tv markets etc...

it would be beneficial to all of our programs.

[Stallion]

"Currently, we aren't allowed to get after kids w/6 schools in 4 years, and a paid transcript from a diploma mill, who had someone sit for him at standardized tests. A police record for street cred always helps etc. That's Big East recruiting."

we've signed kids from diploma mills, high school drop outs with GEDs, non-qualifiers, JUCOs with low GPAs, kids who have transferred to multiple schools, transfers on academic probation. We also had one of the worst APRs in the NCAA last year in BB. You are way overplaying this-and you don't even understand NCAA rules dealing with most of these issues. I'm calling [deleted]. Further, the Big East doesn't allow non-qualifiers

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 46299.html

[hoopmanx]

"Currently, we aren't allowed to get after kids w/6 schools in 4 years, and a paid transcript from a diploma mill, who had someone sit for him at standardized tests. A police record for street cred always helps etc. That's Big East recruiting."

we've signed kids from diploma mills, high school drop outs with GEDs, non-qualifiers, JUCOs with low GPAs, kids who have transferred to multiple schools, transfers on academic probation. We also had one of the worst APRs in the NCAA last year in BB. You are way overplaying this-and you don't even understand NCAA rules dealing with most of these issues. I'm calling [deleted]. Further, the Big East doesn't allow non-qualifiers

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 46299.html

Take it up w/Fraschilla, Lutz. Brown, Irvin, Hobbie, even Geary. They'll all tell you the exact same thing. I never said I knew anything about the in's and outs of the NCAA rules, just telling folks what those that have recruited under our umbrella, and a few choice 3rd parties, think about such a move. You spend your time looking up bylaws, I'll spend mine talking to those who work or have worked for the program. That's where the rubber meets the road, not in a book.

We've signed one kid from a diploma mill. We signed one JUCO that had a GED. He was an exception and was an outstanding student at JUCO. Went on to be on the ALL-CUSA academic team. Who have we signed that went to 4 schools or so in high school/post grad?

We have a crap APR b/c we don't have hoops majors, not to mention transfers, force outs etc. Make it easy for kids w/no education to graduate, and I bet the APR goes through the roof. One thing I forgot to mention was that our last 3 rc's have complained bitterly about academic support.

Oh yeah, that article was a farce. What does it matter how much they claim to raise standards if the books are cooked in hoops. IF the schools in question consistently draw from programs that are rogue, you can get anyone through. You realize that its more disingenuous to recruit hot transcripts than it is to actually have them sit, right?

[EastStang]

Somehow, Doh recruited effectively for Notre Dame in the BE. He knows what he's getting into. Georgetown has really had to work hard to deal with recruiting and admissions issues. They have a direct line into the DC/Baltimore Catholic leagues where most of the talent is. These schools are not diploma mills and the kids who come out of them are college ready. Georgetown has at most one or two special admissions (think Allen Iverson) each year. Roy Hibbart went to Georgetown Prep which is a solid school academically which has a pipeline to the CYO leagues around DC. They have kids on their roster from DeMatha, Mt. St. Josephs, Seton Hall Prep, Georgetown Prep and Bishop O'Connell. All solid Catholic schools.

[hoopmanx]

Somehow, Doh recruited effectively for Notre Dame in the BE. He knows what he's getting into. Georgetown has really had to work hard to deal with recruiting and admissions issues. They have a direct line into the DC/Baltimore Catholic leagues where most of the talent is. These schools are not diploma mills and the kids who come out of them are college ready. Georgetown has at most one or two special admissions (think Allen Iverson) each year. Roy Hibbart went to Georgetown Prep which is a solid school academically which has a pipeline to the CYO leagues around DC. They have kids on their roster from DeMatha, Mt. St. Josephs, Seton Hall Prep, Georgetown Prep and Bishop O'Connell. All solid Catholic schools.

LOL, It's not just a case of Doh knows what's up, just recruit better. Doh doesn't have the same support here that he had at Notre Dame, and that's the issue, and what has to change. The coaches here complain about even playing field, how small the prospect pool is, b/c of kids they can't recruit. Not being able to touch a slew of schools, not just diploma mills. Support in admissions, academic support for the athletes, heavy-handed compliance etc. Our old recruit coordinator went to TCU, just this past off-season. Guess what his take is? The one before that to Creighton, and he's especially animated on the topic. His partner in crime his first few years was associate HC @ another MVC school, and he too says it's night & day. Anyway, these are the people responsible for running the program, and they say we're at a competitive disadvantage.

You can spew that Georgetown stuff on other folks, but I grew up right down the street. You paint an incredibly rosy picture of their recruiting practices over the years. As a private catholic, they can take anyone and mostly do. They have a long history of taking diploma mill kids & no offense, but the WCAC takes cares of athletes.

[Stallion]

you talk in so much generalizations about so many issues that you don't understand that's its impossible to deal with your responses. If you are claiming that SMU can't compete without criminals, kids from diploma mills, doctored transcripts and cheaters on their SAT/ACT then I'm calling you out as full of [deleted].

SMU allows kids from just about every category of questionable academic profile you could name-with the probable exception of those illiterates that can't score 700+ on their SAT on their 3rd attempt( 550 points under the SMU average)- SMU can compete under those conditions. You only need 3-5 kids a year.

Now do we have the heritage, basketball infrastructure or support then you might have an argument but certainly BCS programs have increased expenditures in those areas as BCS money is infused into the BB program as well. Of course, SMU doesn't spend those types of funds on their non-BCS program. BCS money is how a school like Baylor has passed SMU in so many sports.

If I'm wrong why don't you start naming recruits that SMU has refused to admit to the program-I haven't read about a single one. I routinely identified specific players who could not get admitted to the program under our previous admissiion standards. June Jones doesn't get pre-approval on the admission of recruits before he offers and neither does Doherty. The total number of offered kids who June Jones has had to wait to see if they qualified is probably close to 30+. Heck they've had about 16 non-qualifiers and I'm being conservative. If you ever named specific recruits then I guarantee you in most cases it would become quite obvious why they were not admitted or couldn't be admitted. Futher, neither SMU nor the Big East routinely admits non-qualifiers-although SMU has with some foreign transcripts

Get this straight and pass the word-SMU does not have restrictive admission standards for student athletes. You people perpetuating this nonsense only serve to run off recruits who think they can't get in.

[Stallion]

Here's what you get when you try to get kids with unbelievably low ACT/SATs. SMU under Doherty offered Fabyon Harris. He committed while he had something like a 15 ACT under the promise that he would attempt to get a qualifying score. Doherty chickened out because neither he nor anyone else in NCAA Basketball thought he would qualify under NCAA rules. So he turned to Jeremiah instead. The next day after SMU signed Jeremiah Harris receives his ACT and magically scores an 19. He ends up signing with UH-but guess what-( I don't believe this has been reported on Ponyfans) that magical ACT was thrown out by the Testing Service. You're going to have to explain why SMU offered a kid with a 15 ACT to get me to believe SMU has high standards-they don't have high standards

http://magicvalley.com/news/local/twin- ... e3c7a.html

[Stallion]

By the way after allegedly getting homesick at Houston he somehow decided to head not to Chicago but to Howard Junior College in Texas and was promptly arrested. As soon as I heard he was not headed back to Chicago I pegged it.

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