SMU to Big East - ramifications for bball

[mrydel]

Did Howard Junior College have a warrant out for him?

[EastStang]

The WCAC does take care of athletes, but they make sure they can at least read, write and cipher. I played against guys from Georgetown Prep, Gonzaga, O'Connell, Good Counsel, and St. Johns and got my butt kicked and know many now. They routinely get qualifying scores on ACTs and SATs. The WCAC schools recruit kids out of the 7th-8th grade teams, give them free scholarships, which mean a lot. With four/five years (many times they'll make a kid take the 8th grade again) to work with these kids, they'll do fine in college. Sure, Georgetown will admit a thug like Allen Iverson, but guess what he had qualifying scores and was eligible when he went to the NBA. But not a whole team of Allen Iversons.

[hoopmanx]

you talk in so much generalizations about so many issues that you don't understand that's its impossible to deal with your responses. If you are claiming that SMU can't compete without criminals, kids from diploma mills, doctored transcripts and cheaters on their SAT/ACT then I'm calling you out as full of [deleted].

SMU allows kids from just about every category of questionable academic profile you could name-with the probable exception of those illiterates that can't score 700+ on their SAT on their 3rd attempt( 550 points under the SMU average)- SMU can compete under those conditions. You only need 3-5 kids a year.

Now do we have the heritage, basketball infrastructure or support then you might have an argument but certainly BCS programs have increased expenditures in those areas as BCS money is infused into the BB program as well. Of course, SMU doesn't spend those types of funds on their non-BCS program. BCS money is how a school like Baylor has passed SMU in so many sports.

If I'm wrong why don't you start naming recruits that SMU has refused to admit to the program-I haven't read about a single one. I routinely identified specific players who could not get admitted to the program under our previous admissiion standards. June Jones doesn't get pre-approval on the admission of recruits before he offers and neither does Doherty. The total number of offered kids who June Jones has had to wait to see if they qualified is probably close to 30+. Heck they've had about 16 non-qualifiers and I'm being conservative. If you ever named specific recruits then I guarantee you in most cases it would become quite obvious why they were not admitted or couldn't be admitted. Futher, neither SMU nor the Big East routinely admits non-qualifiers-although SMU has with some foreign transcripts

Get this straight and pass the word-SMU does not have restrictive admission standards for student athletes. You people perpetuating this nonsense only serve to run off recruits who think they can't get in.

Well, I can believe you, which I don't, or believe guys like Lutz, Brown, Irvin who recruit the kids. I'm merely telling you and others what more than a few of our assistants have said about an AQ move. They pretty much chuckle. Ask them. Its not about kids getting in, it's about who they can't recruit, kids who get in other places and thrive. After that, it's about support. Your bcs argument is garbage. We've always had a reputable recruiting budget, better than many BCS programs. Budget isn't why Baylor recruits better than us either, lol. FWIW,The hoops staff consistently is amazed by the kids June tries to run up a flagpole. Beyond that, you act like football & hoops transcripts are 6 of 1, half dozen the other. They aren't. Don't get all football-centric when they aren't close to an apples to apples comparison. The prospect pools are vastly different.

Here's the thing, I don't give a crap what you say, cause I know who I talk to and their thoughts. You can spew supposed policy all day, like a lawyer [deleted], or listen to those that actually work/worked under the current restrictions. Your choice. I could go on all day naming kids they've told me they couldn't recruit, that 'qualified' and got through the clearinghouse elsewhere. Reggie Brown went from SMU to TCU, ask him about the difference in kids they're allowed to recruit. Ask Lutz how much more latitude they have at Creighton.

Of all people, I'm the first that would love to see us in a better hoops conference. I'm the first that wants us to recruit man up w/elite powers. Why would I say we aren't ready, if I hadn't heard it from those that know tons better than you? Nothing I've stated anywhere in this thread is even my opinion, just what I've been told first hand. Kill the messenger if you like, but that's what they say. I'd love to see you debate the issue w/our rc's over the years lol.

[hoopmanx]

Here's what you get when you try to get kids with unbelievably low ACT/SATs. SMU under Doherty offered Fabyon Harris. He committed while he had something like a 15 ACT under the promise that he would attempt to get a qualifying score. Doherty chickened out because neither he nor anyone else in NCAA Basketball thought he would qualify under NCAA rules. So he turned to Jeremiah instead. The next day after SMU signed Jeremiah Harris receives his ACT and magically scores an 19. He ends up signing with UH-but guess what-( I don't believe this has been reported on Ponyfans) that magical ACT was thrown out by the Testing Service. You're going to have to explain why SMU offered a kid with a 15 ACT to get me to believe SMU has high standards-they don't have high standards

http://magicvalley.com/news/local/twin- ... e3c7a.html

Did you know that SMU also took a verbal from Keith Shamburger twice, weeks before Fabyon allegedly committed, and had already taken the Frog verbal. They really wanted two PGs in that class, and loved Fab, so were willing to take a chance on his ACTs. As long as they had either Frog/Sham in the fold, it was a calculated risk ie Fab, cause they liked him a lot more than Sham.

The reason they dropped him was b/c Fab allegedly went vigilante w/a few of his buddies, after his brother was killed. Reggie went to the brothers funeral in Chicago and spent much of it convincing Fab and friends not to shoot anyone. That's roughly when he was dropped. They had very few illusions that he'd qualify, just wanted him if he did. Lutz was also vehemently against Fab b/c he didn't fit the profile. Loved his game, though. In fact, he's recruiting him at Creighton, as is Reggie @ TCU.

So, let's not pretend like you know any background beyond articles you dig up. Let's also not pretend like you predicted anything, when all these discussions were hashed out by staff & others a million times. Did you know that Hank Thorns wanted SMU, but would have lost too much in the transfer, so he chose TCU? Did you know that had he come to SMU, we never would have even thrown a flyer to Fab or entertained kids like Sham. Maybe you just don't realize how desperate Doh was in what he thought would be his last year, unless he got a quality PG. They threw it against the wall to see if it would stick. They had no illusions it would.

Do you know why we took Uche Ofouegu this year over Damyeon Dotson, Stallion? Not b/c he's the better talent, btw.

[RGV Pony]

Do you know why we took Uche Ofouegu this year over Damyeon Dotson, Stallion? Not b/c he's the better talent, btw.

alright you cant just throw that out there and leave us hanging

[Stallion]

He throws [deleted] against the wall-often failing to even name kids SMU even offered. Hate to break this to you but most SMU recruits are offered BEFORE the admission department makes a ruling on their admissibility-so if SMU didn't offer that's the Coaches fault OR THE COACHES PROBABLY KNOW HE IS NOT GOING TO BE A QUALIFIER. I any event they have until August 2012 to qualify.

[Stallion]

Man that's amazing we couldn't get Keith Shamburger into school since at one point he won the John Wooden Award which lists him with a 3.7 GPA at the same high school as Davon Moreland -Serra who did not qualify but we are waiting on. We clearly offered and he had 1/2 year to qualify. I don't undersxtand what you are talking about when you say that SMU doesn't even bother to go after kids when SMU admissions have been waiting on kids to qualify late for yearts now. See when you look behind Hoopmax's generalizations and rumors he hears on the street it all falls apart because he doesn't understand what he talking about

http://www.woodenaward.com/?p=254

[hoopmanx]

He throws [deleted] against the wall-often failing to even name kids SMU even offered. Hate to break this to you but most SMU recruits are offered BEFORE the admission department makes a ruling on their admissibility-so if SMU didn't offer that's the Coaches fault OR THE COACHES PROBABLY KNOW HE IS NOT GOING TO BE A QUALIFIER. I any event they have until August 2012 to qualify.

What have I thrown up against a wall? I can name tons of kids they couldn't recruit, but wanted to, that ended up qualifying elsewhere. They scour the transcripts well in advance before offering. They even consult admissions once they get the transcripts. It's not the process you want to make it out to be.

Didn't hear you answer why we decided on Uche over Dotson, though. The reason is b/c the hoops program really isn't allowed to recruit Yates. They aren't allowed to recruit Gods Academy, no longer allowed to recruit Humble Christian, and Doh is going to war over Grace Prep. That's probably 3 of the top 6 or 7 programs in the state, year in, year out. You want them to recruit there backyard more than anyone, yet we can't recruit half the top 10 programs in the state. Your schtick would be more useful if you knew anything about even one cycle, and why we made the decisions we did. You don't, so you bog threads down in what you do know, which in this case, flies in the face of what all our hoops recruit coordinators say. If your mission is to convince everyone we're on equal footing, take your diatribe to the guys who recruit first, cause they say you're full of [deleted]

[Stallion]

God's Academy named by New York Times as one of the nations most natorious diploma mills.


"God's Academy in Irving, Tex.: A summer basketball coach started with three students in August. Now 40 students in Grades 6 to 12, all basketball players, meet with two full-time teachers four days a week at a recreation center. The curriculum is provided and graded by an education center 25 miles away."



These are the types of kids that hoopmax is talking about-Good for SMU admissions!!!! We don't need them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/25/sport ... wanted=all

[hoopmanx]

Man that's amazing we couldn't get Keith Shamburger into school since at one point he won the John Wooden Award which lists him with a 3.7 GPA at the same high school as Davon Moreland -Serra who did not qualify but we are waiting on. We clearly offered and he had 1/2 year to qualify. I don't undersxtand what you are talking about when you say that SMU doesn't even bother to go after kids when SMU admissions have been waiting on kids to qualify late for yearts now. See when you look behind Hoopmax's generalizations and rumors he hears on the street it all falls apart because he doesn't understand what he talking about

http://www.woodenaward.com/?p=254

You need to read a little more carefully. I never ever said Shamburger wouldn't qualify you blowhard [deleted]. Doh scouted him 3 times in the CIFs, and didn't like him nearly as much as Frog or Fab, despite taking his verbal. We were going to wait on Fab, until we basically thought he was going to be brought on murder 1 charges. When it became evident that he wasn't listening to the staff and was looking for his own brand of justice, we dropped him. They used the other ship on Cotton instead of Sham.

SMU doesn't generally go after kids they have to wait on, b/c they have 3 ships per class, and can't afford to wait & miss. Football has that luxury, hoops doesn't except on rare occasion like Fab. You don't have a 3 man class and take kids that may not qualify. That's a death sentence at a school like SMU

[Stallion]

So you have just now admitted that the SMU Coaching Staff makes the decision to go after the sure academic thing rather than wait 5 months to see if the NCAA and SMU clear him. Guess what that happens in every program. Outstanding recruits get left behind because they don't have their transcripts in order. It doesn't mean SMU wouldn't have admitted a late qualifier. That's Doherty's call. That's not SMU's admissions fault-which is one of my major points. In any event if the kid doesn't qualify he can't go to SMU or a Big East school.

[Stallion]

How is that we are not allowed to recruit Humble Christian when we just signed Leslie Smith from Humble Chrfistian? Quite frankly we are signing all kinds of kids from very sketchy schools.

[hoopmanx]

God's Academy named by New York Times as one of the nations most natorious diploma mills.


"God's Academy in Irving, Tex.: A summer basketball coach started with three students in August. Now 40 students in Grades 6 to 12, all basketball players, meet with two full-time teachers four days a week at a recreation center. The curriculum is provided and graded by an education center 25 miles away."



These are the types of kids that hoopmax is talking about-Good for SMU admissions!!!! We don't need them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/25/sport ... wanted=all

I'm glad we don't recruit God's Academy, Stallion. Tim Miller is an awful person. That's not the point and you know it. You either want to be on a level playing field or you don't. You don't get to say Good for SMU for not admitting kids other schools will, and then proclaim we're on an equal playing field. You want some more schools? How bout QEA? That's Baylor's entire recruiting class, and we can't recruit it. Can't recruit Arlington Country Day, either

[Stallion]

SMU is playing within the letter and SPIRIT of the rules and close to the bottom of the NCAA's very low admission standards. We can compete under those standards

[hoopmanx]

So you have just now admitted that the SMU Coaching Staff makes the decision to go after the sure academic thing rather than wait 5 months to see if the NCAA and SMU clear him. Guess what that happens in every program. Outstanding recruits get left behind because they don't have their transcripts in order. It doesn't mean SMU wouldn't have admitted a late qualifier. That's Doherty's call. That's not SMU's admissions fault-which is one of my major points. In any event if the kid doesn't qualify he can't go to SMU or a Big East school.

Here's what Im telling you for the umteenth time. Our assistants over the past 5 years, including one member of this staff, don't think we're remotely on the same playing field as AQ schools. It's not a money thing, it's an administrative, admissions and support issue as I've been told.

You are trying to bleed a turnip, when all I'm doing is recounting personal conversations I've had w/the coaches who recruit for us. I can't offer specifics, cause frankly that's bland/boring nonsense that doesn't effect my life or job. I just don't care about the minutia of NCAA laws or SMUs admissions policy. That said, when discussing moving up, I find the takes of the people who do recruit, very telling. You don't, which makes you an egomaniac. Stop pretending to know more than the people employed by the program to acquire talent. It fits you, but looks effin bad