UTEP Recruiting/Coaching

[Dwan]

It seems that when you mention the job that Price has done at UTEP on this board, the response you get is that Price has been able to take UTEP to a national ranking because he can get JUCO players and non-qualifiers to go to UTEP and SMU will not allow those players.

According to SuperPrep rankings, UTEP's recuiting classes, which include JUCO's has been ranked in the conference accordingly: These rankings do not include two Parade All American Transfers, but neither (or at least one of them) of them are playing this year so their addition cannot be attributed to the 9-2 record of this year. Just interesting is all I'm saying when you consider SMU has higher ranked classes that UTEP over the last 5 years.

04 - 8th in the WAC
03 - 10th in the WAC
02 - 6th in the WAC
01 - 9th in the WAC
00 - 5th in the WAC
99 - 7th in the WAC

[EastStang]

A JUCO transfer is a junior. That means he has two years of collegiate football and growth under his belt. Our freshman and red-shirts are not going to be as competitive even if they are better ranked as high schoolers. There are more upperclassmen starting and two deep that translates into an advantage against a young re-building team.

[Dwan]

Or they are better coached.....

[Uncle Morty]

This question came up last week, when PerunaPunch claimed UTEP had brought in 16 junior college transfers, and that was a major part of their turnaround. I argued that didnt seem likely, since they only had 13 scholarships to give last year. The Miners do have 16 transfers listed on their roster, 6 are from 1-A schools who are sitting out this year, 10 are from junior colleges, some are on scholarship, some are walk ons.
I wanted to know what kind of impact they were having on this season, so I checked their 2-deep roster, and the season stats on their game notes for Rice. The only transfer on the 2-deep was wide reciever Daniel Robinson. Robinson caught a 28 yard touchdown against La. Tech for his first and only reception of the season. Linebacker Anthony Barnes has appeared in 2 games, and made 2 tackles. Offensive linemen Anthony Casey and Clay Salima have got into 4-5 games, but they arent on the 2-deep roster. Thats it. Out of all those JC kids, UTEP has gotten 1 catch and 2 tackles. It doesnt look like any of the rest have even seen the field.

Senior Adrian Ward transferred to UTEP from a JC the year before last, and he starts at one cornerback spot. He was the only starter I found with a junior college background.

[Stallion]

I guess you were too bothered to look at the 12 Senior Starters and 6 Junior starters. Only one starter is a freshman. There are 27 Upperclassmen in the First 44-probably more if you counted redshirt sophmores. They have only 4 starters who are either freshmen or sophmores. I don't have the time or desire to check on the JC/CC players-they may be being redshirted. I don't know and don't care. When SMU ever has a snowball's chance in hell of getting a Coach like Mike Price then I might. And you know why coaches like Mike Price would laugh in SMU's face at least in the past. BECAUSE people like you that don't see the necessity of JC/CC, Division 1A transfers, low qualifiers and late qualifiers. Mike Price has shown in the last year EXACTLY the type of administration support and Model he expects in a program-and it certainly doesn't resemble what we have seen at SMU in 15 years.

[Dwan]

Come on Stallion, you have the time to know every recruit in the state of Texas, you def have the time to look at that information. And might I add we love and appreciate it.

And those 12 senior starters come from lower ranked recruiting classes than we had.

[Uncle Morty]

Too bothered? No, I wasnt "too bothered", that just wasnt a part of the question. The question was specifically related to JC players, and that was what I looked at.
Dont try to put words in my mouth. I've never said anything about JC players, D1 transfers, etc., not being useful. I'm not surprised to find out your a lawyer, thats a common trick, trying to force someone to defend themselves from things they never actually said. But its a trick of desperation, its what you do when you dont have anything substantial to work with. I know that your many groupies on this site will swallow it whole, to be me its just kind of sad. What I said was they have not had any major impact on UTEPs current change in performance. I looked for the stats because I dont believe in simply swallowing the party line without looking for myself. I realize thats a problem for you, but I'm afraid you're just going to have to live with it.

Sorry Dwan, you're wasting your breath. When Stallion says he doesnt have the time, it means he's already looked up the answer, and its something he doesnt want to talk about. I dont claim to be 100% accurate. I could have missed something while I was browsing through the stats. But, if I had, you can rest assured that Stallion would have already told you about it. I can give you a link to the information I looked at, it wont take long at all.

[Dwan]

Uncle Morty,

I can't really talk to people like you. You are the reason we don't have a coach like Mike Price because you don't see the value of JC recruits and partial qualifiers. Why are you killing the program like that man?

Granted the point I think we were trying to make was that they have not had a huge impact at UTEP this year and their 9-2 mark. That UTEP's success this year is largely due to coaching and not their JCs. But that is beside the point. Morty, frankly I'm pissed that you are the reason we don't have Mike Price.

[Uncle Morty]

I'm the reason? Little old me? Wow. I had no idea I had that kind of pull around here. I was always under the impression that no-one in our athletic department gave a damn one way or the other what I thought. If I'm really that big a deal I should at least rate a box seat in Ford, dont you think? Or courtside seats for hoops? hey, maybe thats the real reason we dont have Mike Price as our coach, all the courtside seats were sold out, he couldnt get good seats in Moody. That makes about as much sense as your theory.

To say I dont see the value in JC players isnt particularly accurate. I think they can help, I just dont think they're magic. On the subject of partial qualifiers, I dont know what to tell you, Dwan. If you explain to me how a partial qualifier is going to pay the $35,000 tuition for his first year at SMU, maybe I'll listen to your argument. If you cant do that, the point is moot and you're being irrational.

I do have one question for Stallion, though. I meant to ask this a couple of days ago, actually. When SMU beat Tulsa on saturday, did that mean that the Pye Model beat the Stallion Model?

I'll come back to read your rant later.

[Dwan]

Morty,

I think you missed my attempt at Humor. In his post Stallion stated the following:

"And you know why coaches like Mike Price would laugh in SMU's face at least in the past. BECAUSE people like you that don't see the necessity of JC/CC, Division 1A transfers, low qualifiers and late qualifiers."

I took that and ran with it.

Dwan

[Stallion]

no all you are doing is waiting until the 8th game of the season, searching the 117 Division 1A programs, pointing to 1/117th of the programs and coming to the remarkable conclusion---SEE UTEP turned the program around overnite(2004), as Tulsa did(2003) and Rice did (2002). That is the argument of a small mind choosing the exceptions to the rule generally supported with unusually high numbers of upperclassmen-something SMU obviously doesn't have. The Stallion Model is a blueprint for sustainable, long term success. Tulsa has obviously failed that test as has Rice. UTEP with Price's expertise in building programs offers persuasive evidence that at least in Price's expert opinion the Stallion Model is the best alternative to obtain that sustainable successful-he has rejected the very argument you make as to what is necessary to build a strong Division 1A program. You are simply wrong in suggesting that I said the Tulsa had turned the program around overnite with a coaching genius-as a matter of fact I was the one laughing at people's stupidity who made that argument on this board. WOW! they beat Texas St., Arkansas St and about 3 WAC teams in the Bottom 10. Give 'em a bowl game! I did point out that even the limited success Tulsa had enjoyed was prominently aided by JUCOs who were won at least 2nd team All-WAC mention at CB, LB, WR and their best runner until a midseason injury. Plus I have NEVER EVER advocated SMU admitting partial or non-qualifiers. I do think that they should be able to sign to letter of intents a player upon the condition that they qualify by the NCAA mandated date of August 1. Therefore, your $35,000 argument is completely irrelevant. Finally, please list all qualified head coaches-preferrably with Mike Price's resume who have applied or seriously considered the SMU job under the Pye Model. ANSWER:_______________Have FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The inevitable answer is irrefutable proof of my argument. Your theory that a great coach like Mike Price could turn the SMU program using the Pye Model is a red-herring-it has never and will NEVER happen.

[Dwan]

Is there a Stallion Model for long-term peace in the middle east or one on reducing the deficit?

[RGV Pony]

While we're on the topic of Mike Price and coaches of his ilk applying or not applying to SMU, does anyone know who else was a candidate for the job when Cavan was ultimately hired?

[Uncle Morty]

[quote="Stallion"]You are simply wrong in suggesting that I said the Tulsa had turned the program around overnite with a coaching genius-as a matter of fact I was the one laughing at people's stupidity who made that argument on this board..[/quote]

Sorry, but I never suggested anything like that. You might want to go back and read the original thread again. In that post I reminded you of your claim last year that Tulsa's success and bowl appearance was due to their adoption of what you called "The Stallion Model," and then I asked why that model was failing them this year. Still kind of waiting for an answer on that one.


[quote="Stallion"]Plus I have NEVER EVER advocated SMU admitting partial or non-qualifiers. I do think that they should be able to sign to letter of intents a player upon the condition that they qualify by the NCAA mandated date of August 1..[/quote]

You mean kind of like Kelvin Cox? Would you like me to tell the folks at home who Cox was/is, or do you want to handle that one yourself?

[quote="Stallion"] Finally, please list all qualified head coaches-preferrably with Mike Price's resume who have applied or seriously considered the SMU job under the Pye Model. ANSWER:_______________Have FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The inevitable answer is irrefutable proof of my argument. Your theory that a great coach like Mike Price could turn the SMU program using the Pye Model is a red-herring-it has never and will NEVER happen.[/quote]

I guess Sherman Lewis and Rick Neuheisel would be the first two names that come to mind. Didnt Jimmy Laycock apply during the search that eventually landed Cavan? Norm Chow isnt a head coach yet, but most observers think he will be soon.

Very sad, your drivel is getting to be as predictable the sun coming up in the morning. Thats why I brought up Cox, I'm hoping you'll come up with something new and original to explain that one, particularly since you've been ranting on this subject for a few weeks now. Catch you in the morning.

Dwan, sorry about that. I'm an old man, and sometimes other peoples sarcasm and irony can fly right over my head.

[EastStang]

SMU would never hire a Mike Price. We would not want a coach who blew his chance at a big time program whoring his way through Florida. The administration of a University with the word "Methodist" in its name, just wouldn't go there. I know Dwan has a thing for Price, but he would not have been a candidate for SMU despite his coaching track record. I think Jimmye Laycock of William and Mary interviewed for the job, but turned us down during the Cavan search. By the time of the Bennett search there were no applicants with a resume, pedigree and experience better than his.