ORU Game thread

[Charleston Pony]

They won tonight, squeaked by Florida Intl. That would be their first non-conference win since 2008. I'm not going to mention who they beat that night, since it was pretty much the most embarrassing moment in our programs history.

I don't know; we have a long list of "most embarrassing losses. I remember one of Dave Bliss' teams losing to Rollins College...at Moody no less

[PonyKai]

Alright, I'm willing to buy into the idea that the current coaching administration has taken us to some dangerously low points. I'd love to see some marked improvement and wins very soon, please. The position has been rehabbed, the facilities are there, we've shown a commitment to our current coach. Time to produce. We're SMU god damnit. Regardless of what Glotz-Wolkner-Katz think every time they low-blow us in the sports blog-o-sphere, it's time to start kicking some peoples' as*es.

[hoopmanx]

So I slept on it last night, and I'm still incredibly sick of this. All I required this year was to beat the cupcakes and win most of the 50/50 games OOC. Heck, maybe even throw the fear of God in a high major. As of now, this is the single worst coaching job in Doh's tenure, minus all the turmoil behind the scenes.

This team doesn't cut w/purpose, set picks w/purpose, or play any interior D. IF anyone has noticed, the last two games, we made our runs when the PG(manuel both nights & frog last night) used the high post as a screener, not as an immediate entry to kick start movement. Manuel uses the screen, rubs his defender, defense slides, Nyuk open in the corner. Basically creating numbers of the penetration.

We only had one part back cut/part backdoor last night, and Cunningham clanked a lay-up. Off the pass, the ball never gets closer to the basket this year.

More Manuel, sit Losh.

Beat UAPB or Doh has to go now

[GiddyUp]

What did he mean he changed the offense in the 2nd half hoopman?

[ponyscott]

Wow hoopmax you are usually gung ho...a change in attitude indeed. I knew you were worried about wholesale sub patterns by Doh with all the options he now has, but if you are noticing poor coaching, that won't work. I thought from the two games I saw that they weren't cutting to the basket enough, NO backdoor cuts and just hanging on the perimeter more than they should and not finishing in the paint when they multiple chances, but thought it was more about just youngsters and a new team trying to find its leader and trying to find its identity. They went through this last year and came out well in the second half of the season, but obviously they don't have a big guy to lean on this time.
Time will tell, but would imagine they beat UAPB by 20+. They have more patsy on the schedule on December so it gives them some time to jell before they hit the meat of the schedule. After watching Memphis yesterday against Harrdaway and that tough Michigan team I know we won't be knocking the Tigers off this year again.

[hoopmanx]

What did he mean he changed the offense in the 2nd half hoopman?

Like he said, and I pointed out earlier in the thread, we went to a high pick & roll O/ motion.The princeton is being run w/no success right now & eats all the clock. Down 13 last night, not to mention vs FGC, we had to pick up the pace. Basically, the young kids are thinking way too much in the princeton, don't know when to cut where, and do so w/little purpose. Screens suck etc.

By going high pick & roll, specifically w/Manuel, he gets the option to go either way off the bounce, use the pick to get the defender on his hip, and create numbers. When the defense inevitably slides to pick up the ball, generally the wing or corner shooter is wide open, see Nyakundi. Also, high pick/roll motions make young PGs comfortable. All they have to do is drive/finish or dish. Frog did it well in the second half last night, as did Manuel

[Mitch McConnell]

I know we had this discussion right after these kids committed/signed that we thought that given their athleticism that the Princeton was going to be an odd fit for them and that it may be a shock value system.

I watched a little bit of Georgetown last night against KU and thought the Hoyas used some ideas but they aren't governed by it either. Looks like they are given some freedom. It would seem to me that that's what we should be doing.

Maybe we are and the kids are still struggling with it.

I do think kids need to learn these fundamentals about screening and cutting and so forth because in the long run it will only help their games.

Like I said after the FGC game, Patsevich needs to sit down - PERIOD! And Frog needs to come off the bench. It's not a coincidence how the offense picks up when Manuel is in the game than when Frog is in the game. When Frog is in, we're not moving very well and he's not directing traffic.

Since I missed the latter half of FGC and really can't tell what happened against ORU, it just sounded like the players responde better to Manuel.

Am I right? Wrong?

[GiddyUp]

Thanks Hmx - it was hard to hear what he said. Might as well stay the way for a while b/c the other aint working at all.

[ponyscott]

These posts sure are sounding like what is being said about June Jones and his offense and BE coaching longevity....hmmmmmm

[hoopmanx]

Wow hoopmax you are usually gung ho...a change in attitude indeed. I knew you were worried about wholesale sub patterns by Doh with all the options he now has, but if you are noticing poor coaching, that won't work. I thought from the two games I saw that they weren't cutting to the basket enough, NO backdoor cuts and just hanging on the perimeter more than they should and not finishing in the paint when they multiple chances, but thought it was more about just youngsters and a new team trying to find its leader and trying to find its identity. They went through this last year and came out well in the second half of the season, but obviously they don't have a big guy to lean on this time.
Time will tell, but would imagine they beat UAPB by 20+. They have more patsy on the schedule on December so it gives them some time to jell before they hit the meat of the schedule. After watching Memphis yesterday against Harrdaway and that tough Michigan team I know we won't be knocking the Tigers off this year again.

Ha, I'm always gung-ho, but I'm also somewhat misunderstood around here. I thought we needed 4 or 5 to rehab the head coaching position, which is why I thought Doh should stay. Obviously, not performance-based. All of the sudden, just when it was ok by my eyes to ditch him, they had a very good year w/basically nothing on the roster. System was exceptionally crisp, and everyone bought in. Add two good recruiting classes in a row, and I was willing to see how it played out.

Well, I'm watching it play out, and so far I'm pretty upset by the execution vs very average competition. I'm sick of watching kids like Olekaibe @ Fresno, who I pleaded w/the staff to recruit, get evaluated, then passed over & kill us. Brett Comer too, to a lesser extent. The biggest crosstown example is Hank Thorns @ TCU. That kid was a Mustang if we pushed, but we didn't. Now he leads TCU in everything.

I get the youth excuse, but that's an excuse b/c roster management was so poor for so long. Why the hell don't we know anything on Russell? As of media day, Doh said they'd barely put in his paperwork. UNT has Franklin cleared, what the hell about Russell? He's a starter on this team.

Anyway, Im going to watch every game and get excited IF they right the ship, but I'm no longer pulling punches if they suck. Its time to win, at least vs. the crap schools on the schedule. Just saying, the season comes down to 3 parts, OOC/conference/postseason. As of now, the OOC is an abysmal effort. They deserve heat for these [deleted] appearances, so here I am. I've covered for the program for a years, just b/c its was a grassroots nightmare. Now that it's fixed, I just want wins we should expect at a school like SMU. I'm not asking for the NCAA this year or any other unrealistic goal. I'm asking the program to show the improvement on the court, that we've seen in roster upgrades.

[Mitch McConnell]

Wow hoopmax you are usually gung ho...a change in attitude indeed. I knew you were worried about wholesale sub patterns by Doh with all the options he now has, but if you are noticing poor coaching, that won't work. I thought from the two games I saw that they weren't cutting to the basket enough, NO backdoor cuts and just hanging on the perimeter more than they should and not finishing in the paint when they multiple chances, but thought it was more about just youngsters and a new team trying to find its leader and trying to find its identity. They went through this last year and came out well in the second half of the season, but obviously they don't have a big guy to lean on this time.
Time will tell, but would imagine they beat UAPB by 20+. They have more patsy on the schedule on December so it gives them some time to jell before they hit the meat of the schedule. After watching Memphis yesterday against Harrdaway and that tough Michigan team I know we won't be knocking the Tigers off this year again.

Ha, I'm always gung-ho, but I'm also somewhat misunderstood around here. I thought we needed 4 or 5 to rehab the head coaching position, which is why I thought Doh should stay. Obviously, not performance-based. All of the sudden, just when it was ok by my eyes to ditch him, they had a very good year w/basically nothing on the roster. System was exceptionally crisp, and everyone bought in. Add two good recruiting classes in a row, and I was willing to see how it played out.

Well, I'm watching it play out, and so far I'm pretty upset by the execution vs very average competition. I'm sick of watching kids like Olekaibe @ Fresno, who I pleaded w/the staff to recruit, get evaluated, then passed over & kill us. Brett Comer too, to a lesser extent. The biggest crosstown example is Hank Thorns @ TCU. That kid was a Mustang if we pushed, but we didn't. Now he leads TCU in everything.

I get the youth excuse, but that's an excuse b/c roster management was so poor for so long. Why the hell don't we know anything on Russell? As of media day, Doh said they'd barely put in his paperwork. UNT has Franklin cleared, what the hell about Russell? He's a starter on this team.

Anyway, Im going to watch every game and get excited IF they right the ship, but I'm no longer pulling punches if they suck. Its time to win, at least vs. the crap schools on the schedule. Just saying, the season comes down to 3 parts, OOC/conference/postseason. As of now, the OOC is an abysmal effort. They deserve heat for these [deleted] appearances, so here I am. I've covered for the program for a years, just b/c its was a grassroots nightmare. Now that it's fixed, I just want wins we should expect at a school like SMU. I'm not asking for the NCAA this year or any other unrealistic goal. I'm asking the program to show the improvement on the court, that we've seen in roster upgrades.

Come on, you know that when you file something to the NCAA it's out of your hands and it's basically on their agenda. When they get to it, they get to it.

With any hardship waiver application there is so much red tape the university/student-athlete have to go through, it's a time consuming process. Plus, involve the nerds in the compliance office and that drags it along too.

Perhaps the NCAA is reviewing and has come back to SMU with questions and trying to connect all the dots. That backs it up even more And these applications are 50-50 at best. Yes, we got McNeal cleared for FB but wasn't that like 2 days before the season started.

I think it's best to continue the season with the presumption that he's not playing this year.

[ponyscott]

Thanks Hoopmax...good observations and thanks for sharing.

[hoopmanx]

Beat UAPB or Doh has to go now

I'm not one to pile it on Doh at this point, but I've thought for many years he's an overachieving recruiter (or can be) and an underachieving coach. I actually liked him as a CUSA coach as I honestly thought he would put together some good classes and just "out talent" most teams in CUSA (not named Memphis). The move to the BE is a major game changer for SMU basketball, and Doh isn't going to out recruit BE teams (consistently). IMO (as a SMU basketball rookie), it seems like it's time to thank Doh for his contribution and get a BE caliber candidate. It was a good experiment, but now it's time for SMU to act like they belong in a major conference...

What is a Big East caliber candidate? That's really a matter of career arc in many cases. Gonna need examples, lol. What are willing to pay? People around here talk like Doh is paid exorbitantly. He is given his results, but not on a national scale. We're going to have to pay a ton more.

I agree w/much of what you said. I thought he'd out recruit most teams in CUSA too, and he is a better recruiter than bench guy. That doesn't mean much, cause by himself he's a bad tactician and X & O guy. He either gets this right really fast, or I'm going postal

[PonyKai]

In the hypo category, please no Rob Evans. I hope Turner got over than obsession.

[hoopmanx]

Wow hoopmax you are usually gung ho...a change in attitude indeed. I knew you were worried about wholesale sub patterns by Doh with all the options he now has, but if you are noticing poor coaching, that won't work. I thought from the two games I saw that they weren't cutting to the basket enough, NO backdoor cuts and just hanging on the perimeter more than they should and not finishing in the paint when they multiple chances, but thought it was more about just youngsters and a new team trying to find its leader and trying to find its identity. They went through this last year and came out well in the second half of the season, but obviously they don't have a big guy to lean on this time.
Time will tell, but would imagine they beat UAPB by 20+. They have more patsy on the schedule on December so it gives them some time to jell before they hit the meat of the schedule. After watching Memphis yesterday against Harrdaway and that tough Michigan team I know we won't be knocking the Tigers off this year again.

Ha, I'm always gung-ho, but I'm also somewhat misunderstood around here. I thought we needed 4 or 5 to rehab the head coaching position, which is why I thought Doh should stay. Obviously, not performance-based. All of the sudden, just when it was ok by my eyes to ditch him, they had a very good year w/basically nothing on the roster. System was exceptionally crisp, and everyone bought in. Add two good recruiting classes in a row, and I was willing to see how it played out.

Well, I'm watching it play out, and so far I'm pretty upset by the execution vs very average competition. I'm sick of watching kids like Olekaibe @ Fresno, who I pleaded w/the staff to recruit, get evaluated, then passed over & kill us. Brett Comer too, to a lesser extent. The biggest crosstown example is Hank Thorns @ TCU. That kid was a Mustang if we pushed, but we didn't. Now he leads TCU in everything.

I get the youth excuse, but that's an excuse b/c roster management was so poor for so long. Why the hell don't we know anything on Russell? As of media day, Doh said they'd barely put in his paperwork. UNT has Franklin cleared, what the hell about Russell? He's a starter on this team.

Anyway, Im going to watch every game and get excited IF they right the ship, but I'm no longer pulling punches if they suck. Its time to win, at least vs. the crap schools on the schedule. Just saying, the season comes down to 3 parts, OOC/conference/postseason. As of now, the OOC is an abysmal effort. They deserve heat for these [deleted] appearances, so here I am. I've covered for the program for a years, just b/c its was a grassroots nightmare. Now that it's fixed, I just want wins we should expect at a school like SMU. I'm not asking for the NCAA this year or any other unrealistic goal. I'm asking the program to show the improvement on the court, that we've seen in roster upgrades.

Come on, you know that when you file something to the NCAA it's out of your hands and it's basically on their agenda. When they get to it, they get to it.

With any hardship waiver application there is so much red tape the university/student-athlete have to go through, it's a time consuming process. Plus, involve the nerds in the compliance office and that drags it along too.

Perhaps the NCAA is reviewing and has come back to SMU with questions and trying to connect all the dots. That backs it up even more And these applications are 50-50 at best. Yes, we got McNeal cleared for FB but wasn't that like 2 days before the season started.

I think it's best to continue the season with the presumption that he's not playing this year.

I'm saying they didn't explore the possibility soon enough. They filed the paperwork too late. I know the NCAA is a snail, but they aren't where my problem lies. Understand they are a snail, and get them the paperwork the day after Russell decides, in the likelihood they take forever