Instead of talking about shooting %'s

[HixsontoLeVias]

and inside D, etc., etc., etc....maybe we should focus on what is REALLY vital for success.....fannies in seats. Saturday night, BIG WAC game = 3100 people. Guys, there ain't going to be no'more games if we don't change this, NOW!! 8500 at fball games and 3000 at hoops contests are NOT going to cut it..finacially, NCAA guidelines-wise, etc......not being neg. here, just realistic.....do we / can we support a D-I athletic program at SMU, seriously??? Long Live Dave Piehler.

[BarbaraAnn]

The only way we can get butts into seats is by basically giving away prizes to people, and not just little ones either.

Have I ever thought we've done better with more people there? Not necessarily. People want to see a good game, not a losing team. They won't come unless we start winning. The team wants to play to a packed house. They MIGHT play better if more people are there.

Double-edged sword with no right and clear answer.

[Pony_Fan]

This issue is getting tired.

Too many factors to mention...and most have been talked about many times before. Until Tubbs can somehow lure some total studs to the Hilltop on a regular basis, please accept the attendance.

Copey and Turner were there sitting amongst a plethora of empty seats in the blue section. A lot of courtside seats were empty too.

The sad thing is we are probably losing more fans than gaining...people are really tired of losing and getting lied to by things like the Committment. They are still not seeing a real Committment. I guess we'll see how much longer the Athletic budget can sustain.

[Diehard Pony]

I have been following this program for a long time (since the early 70's) and it is clear we have been on a continuous down hill slide for the last 12 years. There was considerably more interest in the program even during the first couple of years that the program returned from the Death Penalty then there is now. SMU sports used to be a source of great fun and pride. It no longer is and hasn't been for too long.

When I go to Moody nowdays it is a bit of a downer because I remember it when the place rocked, and we won more often than we lost.

I used to get angy about what has happend, but over the years I have moved to acceptance.

Somehow, someway football and basketball are going to have to become consistent winners to ever right this ship. If that doesn't happen, I can see sports going away altogether in the not too distant future.

I don't like it one bit, but it is my take on the reality of the situation.

[HixsontoLeVias]

People want to see winning teams, this will pack the house?? How do you explain the CROWDS during Sonny Allens' 16-12, 8-19, 10-18, 11-16 seasons??....some of the best "average attendances" we have EVER had?? We weren't exactly "winning" back then.....the SWC game average attendance during Bliss' 87-88, 28-7 year was 4700..OUCH!! Tim Mason, Wilson, Chad enjoyed a home avg. of 3400 during their 92-93 20-8 run....so, winning doesn't bring the fan out...the players don't
seem to need big crowds to play well.....exciting / well promoted teams / games might bring the fans out (ala Run Sonny Run / Brad Thomas), bottm line IS the bottom line..we are one of the few school's playing
big time D-I sports without a baseball team, we just dropped track & field (not excactly an expensive sport to finance..), we are about to be in our 4th conf. in the last 10 years, we seemed to be ranked 112th., 98th., 117th. in just about every category...is this a program of the few? 2500 people? Iknow you are into it, and we appreciate that, but, hey, we need about 5000-6000 per night in hoops, 20-25,000 per in fball....is this EVER going to happen? Can this happen? Why? Why not?

[Charleston Pony]

H-t-L: I've been baffled by this decline in interest in SMU athletics as well. I think a couple of things happened. 1st...the death penalty shut things down for a couple of years and I think SMU has been attracting more students who are completely apathetic about sports since that time. The other thing that happened even before the death penalty that "killed" Moody was when the Mavericks made the playoffs before they expected to and had to use Moody...they sprang for an upgrade in the sound system and took out the courtside bleachers and replaced them with fat cat seating. When hald the courtside seats are empty or full of "fans" who give the occasional "golf clap", things just aren't the same. I remember attending games in the 70's and standing for a good part of the game...in what used to be courtside seating for students across from the team's bench. I agree that those who think winning cures cancer have their heads stuck in the sand. We were mediocre in my day, but we got pumped when we smelled an opportunity for an upset. Last night's game with Nevada, a team coming off a strong run last year, would have been packed to the rafters and Moody would have been rocking!

I'm all for a complete revamping of Moody. Create luxury seating for the fat cats and get the students,faculty, family and friends back courtside. Downsize the place to about 6-7000 if need be. We need to creat better game day environments. The students today don't have a clue what that involves. It chaps me to watch schools like the College of Charleston rock their little 3500 seat arena. They don't have more than 500-700 students in attendance, but those kids are whipped into a frenzy and take pride in it. Kresse arena is a tough place for any visitor. Moody is like playing a scrimmage for the visitors.

[Pony_Fan]

1. The SWC was a decent conference with regional foes.
2. The Administration cared about athletics
3. Alums gave money to the program.
4. The Mavericks were not around until 1980. A good majority of games are scheduled on Maverick nights. I have not see little Donnie at a game in a long time...why is that?? Where are all these DISD coaches who supported the hiring of Tubbs?
5. It was probably "cool" to be a fan of the Ponies...now you are a "dork".
6. There was no death penalty....but the Administration should have spent more attention to hoops and growing that while football was dead.
7. SMU Alums don't really care so why should the Dallas community as a whole?
8. People show up to tailgate now b/c it's fun to do and you can drink and socialize...once the game starts, people go watch UT vs. Kansas or the big game of the week.
9. Most great attendance colleges are in a "college town"....I say MOST, not all.
10. Even SMU was Top 10, I am not so sure Moody would fill more than 5K. It would have to be for 2-3 years consistently....then some people might pay attention.

Give away a car, iPods, free burgers for a year...whatever....ask Mavericks for some ideas. Hire a consultant....


Ok, I am tired of talking about attendance. Please accept this and move on for now...

[PK]

I think, with only a few exceptions, most of the big time sports colleges are not in towns/cities with pro sports. For instance, Austin...UT is their "Pro" sports teams. College Station...need I say more? OU...there are no pro teams within a hundred mile of there. Arkansas...Alabama...Florida State...Ohio State. Those colleges located in cities loaded with pro sports teams and venues are all suffering for attendance. Thank God the cowboys are moving to Tarrant County..maybe that will help us attendance wise. Winning will help us, but until people get totally fed up with pro sports, it's going to be hard to compete for the entertainment dollar.

[StangEsq]

We're in Dallas. People won't come out to see a team unless they win. That's been proven with our 4 pro teams over and over again. Even the Cowboys don't draw when they're 1-15. You could hear a pin drop at Reunion when the Mavs won 11 games one year; but once the team started winning, the crowds come out.

If we could build a team that got people excited, they would show up at our games too. The '93 basketball team was a team full of seniors that was better than their 1st-round finish, but they weren't a top 10 team. I went to some of those games and the crowds grew once word got out that they were good, but with our return to mediocrity the next year, we lost all of that.

There are a lot of things to do for fun in Dallas on a Saturday. Regardless of whether it's "cool" to go to the games, it isn't a lot of fun to watch your team get killed and hear the other team's fans enjoying themselves at our expense. In recent years, our teams' performances have been embarassing, and a lot of that has come against schools that a lot of kids around here have probably never even heard of. Only winning will change the locals' attitudes about coming to our games.

[HixsontoLeVias]

.....the '93 teams home avg. was a pitiful 3400, SWC avg. attend. was 4300, sad. This Mavs / Cowboys thing is a good retort from 35,000 feet, but, at ground level....when the Mavs have sucked, and they they have over the last 10-15 years, have we seen a big spike in support? When the Cowboys went 1-15, what was our fball attend. that year,,Hhmmm?? Firtst step, is someone somehow needs to figure out how to get that Tri-Delt who graduated in 79, who was at every game drolling over Brad Branson, how do we get her, her hubby, and 2.7 kids to at least 4-5 games a year? How many Alums in Big D? They ALL probably attended games while at SMU...where are they? Where are all the fball fans? What.....we have a LARGE % of folks who just prefer radically inferior fball, not decent hoops? I have had some GREAT fball experiences over the years, but, hoops has been a more consisitent "entertainment" value for me...bottom line, 3400 at hoops, and 8500 at fball is NOT D-I, does not smell like D-I, does not look like D-I..one day, someone is going to wake up and make an unpopular decision about us, be it D-Ia, or D-II, or "bye-bye"...at this rate, with these trends, are we a D-I program? Long Live Russ Potts.

[LA_Mustang]

when the Mavs have sucked, and they they have over the last 10-15 years

Really? Four consecutive playoff appearances, an average of 56 wins between '01-'04 and a trip to Western Conference Finals sucks? Wow.

When Cuban bought the team they started winning and selling out games...that's no coincidence. But during the 90s the Mavs were terrible and that's why they only averaged about 8-10K per game.

[Pony_Fan]

You'd be surprised how many times I hear "I am going to the Mavs game...sorry"

[couch 'em]

Look. This discussion is silly. This is the average student: Grew up a [insert texas or a&m] fan, came to SMU for whatever reason that WASN'T because they cared about SMU. Didn't care about SMU athletics when they got here. Might have cared, but there is no sense of giving a damn on campus, and EVERYONE constantly bad-mouths athletics. Any hope of making them a fan is crushed. On the off chance they really want to be a fan, they have to go to games and watch us struggle against teams from the other side of the country that they have never heard of and assume are horrible teams in a near empty arena.

Average Dallas resident: Where is SMU again?

If you want the average Dallasite or SMU Alum to come to the games, you have to start winning against real teams (i.e. teams they have heard of) and you have to have lots of advertising showing that we don't suck. You need both at the same time.

If you want students, you need to create a culture of fandom. 80% of people in the band would probably not attend ANY sporting event at SMU had they not joined the band. They now go, and mostly care, because the culture of the band is to support athletics. The culture of SMU is to ridicule athletics. Until you change that, via the administration, via the greeks, via making sure the yearbook people know the alma mater is 'Varsity' not 'Victory', whatever it takes you will never get students or young alums. Winning will not do it unless we are deep in the NCAA every year.

[HixsontoLeVias]

..I sound like PK now..LA Mustang, I said over the last 10-15 years, that would be between 90 - 2005 for the Mavs, they have had some down years...during those down years, have we seen a spike in fans? I think the answer is NO, that is why I question the Mavs argument for our lack of fan support. How many Mavs games fall on Pony game nights? How many SMU alums have Mavs season tickets? I still want to know...where are all the fball season ticket holders......they JUST follow fball?? When Cowboys went 1-15, what year was that? How did our fball figures look that year? The SWC arguement....in 87-88, 28-7 season, GREAT Arkansas games that year, btw...we avg'd. less than 5000 for SWC games...and PS, we had NO fball that year, so here is the FIRST SWC title in hoops since 71-72, fball is shut down, you wouyld assume the average SMU Joe is hungry to cheer for ANYTHING SMU, and we draw 3500 home avg., 4700 SWC avg........I don't get it. SMU has GOT to be the strangest / weirdest NCAA team / fan story in history.

[LA_Mustang]

I agree. The Mavs argument is ridiculous. The reasons we have about 3K at basketball games are many, but one stands out. This is just a guess but let’s say that there are 50K alums in the Dallas area. On a good night there are about 2K alums at the game....that means 4% of our local alums go to home games. I believe our student enrollment (grad and undergrad) is around 10K. On a good night there are about 500 students at our games....that means 5% of our students make that long trip across campus or the street to go to home games. Those have to be the worst percentages of any division I school.

And couch’em is right. Winning doesn’t necessarily guarantee a big crowd as long as we’re playing Fresno, Nevada and Boise. If we were 9-2 in the WAC and playing 1st place Nevada on a Thursday night there would still be about 3.5-4K at the game. Now, if we were 9-2 in conference and playing a school of local interest (UH, Tulane, Rice, TCU), we would probably draw a nice crowd. Hopefully, C-USA will give us that.

But somehow we have to get our students as freshman involved and caring about our athletic teams cause right now it aint happening.