C/O 2013

[AusTxPony]

Does anyone have the real skinny on what happen in the ASU debacle? My opinion was JJ got POed at the lack of student and Dallas support of his team especially Senior Day and perhaps felt there was no hope (as sbsmith seems to suggest). But now with the Orsini firing, I have a feeling that there may have been a rift there that magnified the problem, especially in light of Turner's and JJ's apparent support of Brown's hiring v. Orsini's wishes. Any factual knowledge out there or just opinions? Not that it really matters, I am on board with SMU football no matter what. Go Stangs. Make this the year no one forgets.

[Topper]

I have been around SMU for decades during good, bad, and mediocre times.. Look at where we are post Phil Bennett as opposed to where we are today. PB left a program in tatters. Not all his fault by any means, but Jones started with nothing and a program that was ignored by the national media. Get over the ASU mess, buy tickets and invite your friends and neighbors to the blvd and the games, and lets fill the seats with our fans and have fun. Neither your nor I have control over who fills the head coaching position so either support the program or dont.

I'm not the problem, nor are any of the people going to the games. I've done all I can do to get people to Ford (no small task considering how unimpressive the product has been), the ball is in June's court now. Either start winning big and make people take notice or don't be surprised when attendance continues to be poor. If June still can't wrap his head around what needs to be done to fill Ford then I suspect him and Steinberg will be looking for a new landing spot in December.

If SMU fans aren't going to support the program when we play the defending conference champ in a re-match of the championship game one week after we beat TCU at their place, one of our biggest and most celebrated wins in many a year, then Jones is not the problem. The team offered up a great opportunity for our fans to get excited and fill the stadium on a beautiful day and the fans stayed away in droves. Stop blaming Jones. A bowl team with a winning record three years in a row should sell 32K seats in Dallas.

[sbsmith]

If SMU fans aren't going to support the program when we play the defending conference champ in a re-match of the championship game one week after we beat TCU at their place, one of our biggest and most celebrated wins in many a year, then Jones is not the problem. The team offered up a great opportunity for our fans to get excited and fill the stadium on a beautiful day and the fans stayed away in droves. Stop blaming Jones. A bowl team with a winning record three years in a row should sell 32K seats in Dallas.

SMU fans do support the program, there are as many fans at the games as we're going to get with a mediocre product. Jones is ultimately responsible for the product, so like it or not he's the problem. If you think 24-28 with 0 conference titles, 0 weeks ranked and 0 10 + win seasons means anything to anyone but SMU diehards then you're fooling yourself. It's not on Dallas to give more support to crappy football it's on June to give Dallas better football to get excited about. Dallas will support a winner so June just needs to give them one. If he doesn't like that then there are plenty of programs he can coach that will support mediocre football (almost snagged a job with one last December).

[SMUer]

We beat this freaking dead horse all the time...here it is again:

Number of SMU Grad + Undergrad: 4.3K + 6.7K = 11K
Number of Living Alumni in Dallas: 40K

In an ideal world lets say 30% of graduate students, 60% undergrads and 50% of Dallas alumni go to home games. Wouldn't that be fantastic!?! I mean, really really good. That would mean 1.3K + 4K + 20K to every game. Hey, that's about what we actually draw! Suffice it to say those are fairly tale percentages anyway and even if we were to achieve that number, we'd still need non-Alumni Dallas to bring in an additional 10K to "Fill Ford". Non-Alumni Dallas doesn't care about SMU. They went to or can bandwagon better teams, putting a better product on the field, who participate in better, more traditional conferences, who play regional and historical rivalries, who play locally (thanks to the Cotton Bowl and the Jerry Jones' Deathstar), etc. This is on top of the fact that SMU doesn't market itself worth a lick, has historically alienated the urban Dallas communities and already carries a stigma that SMU "isn't for them".

And June is pi$$ed because Dallas doesn't want to ignore all these factors and fill the coffers of SMU!?! Do you think UCF has a lot of alumni in Dallas? Their DFW Alumni Association has 92 Likes on Facebook. Do you think Dallas cares about Conference USA when the Big12 comes to Dallas 4-5 times a year and soon permanently with TCU? Do you think most of Dallas even realizes it is a championship re-match? No.

SMU has decent-to-good student support, decent-to-good alumni support and poor-to-very poor community support. If June thinks his inconsistent and underwhelming product is going to win Dallas over he's a fool. It's pretty sad that Texas Tech drove to DFW to help out the community after the tornadoes before SMU football even did anything, if they did anything at all. PUT UP PASSING YARDAGE. PUT UP POINTS. PULL OFF BIG WINS. PLASTER YOUR FACE AND SMU UP ALL OVER DALLAS. I'd give Cs and Ds in every one of these categories.

[ponyte]

The Vard is better now than 5 years ago. We had the worse home schedule possible last year with some injury and personnel issues. Not a great environment. Overall, there is a slight improvement to attendance. It should be much better this year with a good team and a great home schedule. This is the year to turn the corner on attendance. Try to bring folks to the game. I did last year a couple of times and the folks that knew little to nothing about SMU loved the entire experience. We can make this a great game day experience. But Jones can’t invite folks for me. I have to do it.

[SMUguy]

It's also time for June and his team to step up their on-field performance. Start 6-0 with wins over 2 Big 12 teams and an SEC team from the state of Texas and SMU will be ranked and getting plenty of regional and national publicity (the type of buzz needed to attract indifferent alums and casual fans). We have to give people a reason to come to games to see us, we're never going to get anywhere depending on the fans of road teams to sell out our stadium. Those last 4 home games will tell us a lot about how far this team and this fanbase have come.

That would be fantastic. While we're at it, let's run the table, win the C-USA title game and squeeze in to a BCS game, where we can beat ... I don't know ... LSU? I'm not saying I don't want those things to occur. We all would love that. But you're looking at a team with a new QB who has two months to learn the offense, five new starters on the offensive line, one receiver with legitimate experience and a stud running back who is coming off of major foot surgery. I'm not saying we can't win games, but there's a very real chance we could be around a .500 team. I hope we're better than that, like almost everyone here does, but I'm also trying to look at it realistically.

I have been around SMU for decades during good, bad, and mediocre times.. Look at where we are post Phil Bennett as opposed to where we are today. PB left a program in tatters. Not all his fault by any means, but Jones started with nothing and a program that was ignored by the national media. Get over the ASU mess, buy tickets and invite your friends and neighbors to the blvd and the games, and lets fill the seats with our fans and have fun. Neither your nor I have control over who fills the head coaching position so either support the program or dont.

This is exactly right. The team June inherited had what can be called "limited talent" and was made up of players recruited to play another system. It's not an overnight process, but what he has done has been better than a lot of coaches could have dreamed of doing in a place some coaches have called a "career killer." Whether that's a fair description or not is another matter for another debate, but the fact is many coaches would not have three bowls on their SMU résumé. We can't un-do the ASU deal any more than we can un-do the Death Penalty, and re-hashing the same negative arguments over and over again on a board that is not run or controlled by the school does nothing but further an agenda of failure and quitting that could rub off on other fans or recruits. If this is your school and your team, start acting like it. Support these players and coaches and cheerleaders and band members. Buy tickets. Get to the stadium on time and stay until the end. Be loud in your support and be consistent in your support.

m not the problem, nor are any of the people going to the games. I've done all I can do to get people to Ford (no small task considering how unimpressive the product has been), the ball is in June's court now. Either start winning big and make people take notice or don't be surprised when attendance continues to be poor. If June still can't wrap his head around what needs to be done to fill Ford then I suspect him and Steinberg will be looking for a new landing spot in December.

You do realize he's not the marketing department, right? His job is to win games and get us to bowl games and then to continue to progress from there. Since he got a team that had some of his players (basically his second year), he has won. Could he have won more? Of course he could have, and we all wish that were the case. I wish the Ponies could go undefeated every season until the end of time. But as a fan, I enjoy watching that process continue. I'm going to be there when we win and I'm going to be there when we lose. If the product really is that "unimpressive" then your memory is far shorter than mine, as 10 years ago ... five years ago ... we didn't even dare utter the word "bowl" around here. We all want to win every game, but we also have injuries and graduation and other factors, just like every other team in every sport. We're not going to erase the ASU scenario, which was a result, at least in part, of some unusual behavior by his agent, and is one of the costs of having a coach who wins. It is what it is, and it's history, and if we win this year, with this many new faces in the lineup, another school might come calling again -- it's one of the costs of winning. Be a supportive fan. Buy tickets. Bring friends, family, neighbors. If you're not careful, you might even enjoy yourself.

[RyanSMU98]

PUT UP PASSING YARDAGE. PUT UP POINTS. PULL OFF BIG WINS.

We all like to dance around this point, but it is spot-on when it comes to the casual Dallas fan in just about any sport we have, collegiate or pro. Ron Washington takes the Rangers to their first world series in three-quarters of a century, and before the series starts folks are ready to erect monuments in his name. After they got swept, the very next day folks are calling for the guy to be fired. Typical Dallas sports fans are the textbook definition of fair-weather, and the weather ain't been near fair enough at SMU to get their attention. Most SMU fans are not the "typical" fan, or we all would have bailed out years ago; we need to do something explosive to get folks attention (and making excuses for why we probably can't beat Baylor, A&M, and TCU doesn't help).

PLASTER YOUR FACE AND SMU UP ALL OVER DALLAS.

I have only been to Hawaii once in my life, in 2008 for my dad's 60th birthday. I checked into the hotel and turned on the TV and happened upon a commercial from the Hawaii Board of Tourism. At the end of that ad was a spot by none other than June Jones, which made sense because he was as recognizable there as Diamond Head and Pearl Harbor. He made a point of being very connected to that community, and still is even after he left (we all have seen the folks who flew in to see his team play, which is where most of his leis came from on game day). There has been little to no effort by him or SMU to make that connection with the DFW area (at least not in a way that a non-affiliated member of the SMU community would recognize outside of his inner-city ministry). His intial media blitz is all but gone and has been for years, and I am not sure how many people would even recognize him outside of Ford Stadium. There is plenty of blame to go around, but if we accept the premise that filling Ford is dependent upon non-SMU fans showing up, then June and the team have a part to play by expecting to beat the [Patterson] out of big teams and making themselves as visible off the Hilltop as they reasonably can. You have to give them a reason to come, and while we are getting better, we are nowhere near the level that will draw these folks out of their homes and onto campus. Heck, we can't even get folks that are on campus to leave the damned blvd to go into the stadium. Lots of work to be done on a lot of fronts, and we are running out to time. I enjoy the improvement too, but the world seems to be moving faster than we are improving so something's gotta change.

[78pony]

We beat this freaking dead horse all the time...here it is again:

Number of SMU Grad + Undergrad: 2.3K + 4.7K = 11K
Number of Living Alumni in Dallas: 40K

In an ideal world lets say 30% of graduate students, 60% undergrads and 50% of Dallas alumni go to home games. Wouldn't that be fantastic!?! I mean, really really good. That would mean 2.8K + 0.7K + 20K to every game. Hey, that's about what we actually draw! Suffice it to say those are fairly tale percentages anyway and even if we were to achieve that number, we'd still need non-Alumni Dallas to bring in an additional 10K to "Fill Ford". Non-Alumni Dallas doesn't care about SMU. They went to or can bandwagon better teams, putting a better product on the field, who participate in better, more traditional conferences, who play regional and historical rivalries, who play locally (thanks to the Cotton Bowl and the Jerry Jones' Deathstar), etc. This is on top of the fact that SMU doesn't market itself worth a lick, has historically alienated the urban Dallas communities and already carries a stigma that SMU "isn't for them".

And June is pi$$ed because Dallas doesn't want to ignore all these factors and fill the coffers of SMU!?! Do you think UCF has a lot of alumni in Dallas? Their DFW Alumni Association has 92 Likes on Facebook. Do you think Dallas cares about Conference USA when the Big12 comes to Dallas 4-5 times a year and soon permanently with TCU? Do you think most of Dallas even realizes it is a championship re-match? No.

SMU has decent-to-good student support, decent-to-good alumni support and poor-to-very poor community support. If June thinks his inconsistent and underwhelming product is going to win Dallas over he's a fool. It's pretty sad that Texas Tech drove to DFW to help out the community after the tornadoes before SMU football even did anything, if they did anything at all. PUT UP PASSING YARDAGE. PUT UP POINTS. PULL OFF BIG WINS. PLASTER YOUR FACE AND SMU UP ALL OVER DALLAS. I'd give Cs and Ds in every one of these categories.

Very good work here, SMUer. I agree on all. We suffer by far and away the most from community or non-alumni support. But what have we done to earn it? Really. Two ties for a CUSA west division championship since...

Many I know that are not SMU types at least thought jones was coming in with an offense that would be a fireworks show each and every time out, and that alone had them very interested. Oops, sorry.

Houston & Navy. We are owned by these guys. At least Navy brings good fan support.

Game day experience... no + or - even though totally unmemorable.

Great BLVD!

The reality is that we, like everyone else, play a numbers game. tu fans fill Austin, DFW and Houston - all within a 3 hour drive. NO NFL, no NBA, no MLB, no NHL, etc. for Austin. Plus the "jump on the bandwagon" effect (starting Vince Young era) for many who either didn't go to college, went a couple of years somewhere, juco's, etc. I wonder how well tu would draw in a major metro area with a pro franchise in all categories? Especially if they had a history of mediocrity over the past 25 years? Had suffered the death penalty. Had to watch and compete as the cowgirls and NFL came to town with big money and constant media exposure.

tt - large student population, only game in town, only game in W TX and NM. Very limited options for the entertainment dollar.

atm - large student population, competition in Houston is 1.5 hrs. away. Brainwashed. Look at their bb attendance for years prior to Gillespie to see how a mediocre product draws, with about as captive an audience as you could imagine (milk cows or go to the game).

baylor, tcu, rice, duke, stanford, wake forest, northwestern, etc. tend to suggest that privates have to put a really good product on the field, and maintain it over a period of time, to win over significant support from non-alumni or the general population. USC could be an exception although they have been good for so long I can't remember. And, USC and UCLA have enjoyed the benefit of no NFL competition over the past ? years in a huge metro area, and massive population base within a 2 - 3 hour drive.

Bottom line is Dallas has a winner mentality, Dallas has a high percentage of college grads (established allegiances), SMU is an elite and small private, SMU's past 25 years have not reflected a winners culture, jones has won - but I would argue more with Mason's D - which does not create nearly the buzz of a prolific O, and the competition from the Big 12/NFL/MLB/etc. is very legitimate.

I can only try to put myself in someone else's shoes. If I'm from anywhere in the Big 10, SEC, PAC 12, or Big 12 regions, had grown up or been exposed to that level of play, found myself in Dallas and my location precluded me from attending most of my alma-mater's games, my mind would decisively conclude that they have not shown me enough (to date) to inspire my support.

[Topper]

If SMU fans aren't going to support the program when we play the defending conference champ in a re-match of the championship game one week after we beat TCU at their place, one of our biggest and most celebrated wins in many a year, then Jones is not the problem. The team offered up a great opportunity for our fans to get excited and fill the stadium on a beautiful day and the fans stayed away in droves. Stop blaming Jones. A bowl team with a winning record three years in a row should sell 32K seats in Dallas.

SMU fans do support the program, there are as many fans at the games as we're going to get with a mediocre product. Jones is ultimately responsible for the product, so like it or not he's the problem. If you think 24-28 with 0 conference titles, 0 weeks ranked and 0 10 + win seasons means anything to anyone but SMU diehards then you're fooling yourself. It's not on Dallas to give more support to crappy football it's on June to give Dallas better football to get excited about. Dallas will support a winner so June just needs to give them one. If he doesn't like that then there are plenty of programs he can coach that will support mediocre football (almost snagged a job with one last December).

Dallas hasn't supported SMU since the program went south in the late 50s and the Cowboys started winning. By your rationale Ron Meyer and Bobby Collins should have sold out Texas Stadium every week. Why did I see so many empty seats staring back at me when we were one of the top two or three teams in the country? JJ has 25 years worth of nothing behind him. Give the man a break.

[Stallion]

Non-affiliated Metroplex fans are never ever going to support the SMU Football program in large numbers. I've got 50 years of experience watching this. The suggestion that SMU alumni, family and friends have been anything other than pathetic in supporting the program is laughable. The fact is SMU only probably needs about 10,000 to 12,000 individual ALUMNI (or even family and friends) to support the program by bringing their kids, wives and guests-with students, opponents fans and others that would sellout just about every game). Is that really too much to ask. The average season ticket holder will bring several people with them. I'd bet very few alumni who buy season tickets buy only 1 seat. I'd bet right now that last year SMU had LESS than 3,000 individual alumni who actually purchased season tickets (not counting the people that came with them). That SUCKS.

[Topper]

Non-affiliated Metroplex fans are never ever going to support the SMU Football program in large numbers. I've got 50 years of experience watching this. The suggestion that SMU alumni, family and friends have been anything other than pathetic in supporting the program is laughable. The fact is SMU only probably needs about 10,000 to 12,000 individual ALUMNI (or even family and friends) to support the program by bringing their kids, wives and guests-with students, opponents fans and others that would sellout just about every game). Is that really too much to ask. The average season ticket holder will bring several people with them. I'd bet very few alumni who buy season tickets buy only 1 seat. I'd bet right now that last year SMU had LESS than 3,000 individual alumni who actually purchased season tickets (not counting the people that came with them). That SUCKS.

We always relied on the big state schools in the SWC to buy tickets and to stir up interest in attending the games by our alums. That is one reason why Big 12 membership would have meant so much to our program. I like the Big East, and I am glad that we are not going the way of Tulsa, Rice, and Tulane, but we can't expect much improved football attendance over the next few years no matter how successful the team is on the field.

[SMUer]

Stallion, SMU would still need 30% of its "natural fans" (students + Dallas alumni) to purchase multiple seat season tickets to fill its stadium (50K x 0.3 = 15K x 2tix = 30K tix). Considering the fact that students (11K) will not buy addition tickets because the get them free, the percentage of all possible "natural fans" needing to buy multiple seats is even higher. Needing 30% of all possible "natural fans" is a substantially high burden for SMU that you'd be silly to baulk at. I'd bet fewer than 10 FBS teams have a higher burden. SMU is something like #7 in terms of smallest FBS schools: rice, Tulsa, wake forest and the 4 service academies are fewer...and I'm sure the service academies have a sizable advantage over the other three because non-academy service men and women have allegiances. 3K is still pretty close to 10% of all possible Dallas alumni buying tickets, which isn't good but it isn't crappy. Any way you scratch it, SMU needs Dallas/Opponents to fill its stands, under any reasonable alumni participation estimate (<30%).

School Enrollment Rankings: http://www.bbstate.com/info/schools-students