SMU Football Fan Culture

[StallionsModelT]

June Jones was the right man for the job when he was hired in 2007. He took a moribund program that was as close to death's doorstep as possible and turned us into a consistent winner. That said, it isn't like we went 10-2, 11-1, and 10-2. We have been treading water for three years getting to pad our win totals against Tulane, Rice, Memphis, UTEP, and UAB. Those are five of the ten worst college football programs in America right now. Look anything looks good compared against what were doing before June got here.

The ASU debacle was just that. A debacle. June handled it poorly and has since seen the impact its had on every aspect of the program. You don't think other schools are telling kids "Why go to SMU? The coach doesn't even want to be there." Had it not fallen through at the last gasp June would be in Arizona right now. Don't believe the fluff that he never accepted the job. The job was accepted and they backed out. If Orsini had any balls June would've been fired the next day after publicly humiliating SMU. But Orsini got his so I guess its karma.

I for one think SMU has the potential to be an elite football program. Not just good or decent....ELITE. With the right pieces in place this could be the next Boise State or TCU. I have no doubt in my mind about that. We have the $$$, facilities, location, and infrastructure to excel here. 25 years of being terrible have drastically lowered the expectations of most the posters on this board. Think of it this way: We have only been committed to trying to win at football for five years. In those five years we have come a very long way, but why be satisfied with 8-5? I don't know. I guess 8-5 is pretty cute. I just think people need to hold this program to the level of excellence it deserves.

[alyssa]

So what's with the nastiness going on here as of late? I remember feeling self conscious being a genuine SMU supporter during the PB years when I was an underclassman. Back then, anyone who expressed optimism regarding the program was called a "sunshiner" and was mocked and ridiculed by the majority. For me at least, those feelings of ridicule and self consciousness have returned.

What I'm wondering is... Why? SMU football is in the best position it has seen since the SWC and all I see on here is [deleted], moaning, and conspiracy theories. It's mind boggling to me that some of you on here think we're on the wrong track. I remember losing to UNT.

It would take me a book to go through it all. I've not made it a secret that I'm ready to move on to a new HC that really wants to be at SMU and can do really well. I was told that JJ took the Arizona State job. To me that means IT'S OVER. I'm not angry about that but still IT'S OVER for me. "They don't give unlimited chances in life."

My Phil Steele magazine says on page 220 "Jones took the Ariz St job prior to the bowl but was back here a wk later."
I don't think he should collect millions of dollars for the job it seems he doesn't really want.

[alyssa]

So what's with the nastiness going on here as of late? I remember feeling self conscious being a genuine SMU supporter during the PB years when I was an underclassman. Back then, anyone who expressed optimism regarding the program was called a "sunshiner" and was mocked and ridiculed by the majority. For me at least, those feelings of ridicule and self consciousness have returned.

What I'm wondering is... Why? SMU football is in the best position it has seen since the SWC and all I see on here is [deleted], moaning, and conspiracy theories. It's mind boggling to me that some of you on here think we're on the wrong track. I remember losing to UNT.

It would take me a book to go through it all. I've not made it a secret that I'm ready to move on to a new HC that really wants to be at SMU and can do really well. I was told that JJ took the Arizona State job. To me that means IT'S OVER. I'm not angry about that but still IT'S OVER for me. "They don't give unlimited chances in life."

My Phil Steele magazine says on page 220 "Jones took the Ariz St job prior to the bowl but was back here a wk later."
I don't think he should collect millions of dollars for the job it seems he doesn't really want.

[alyssa]

So what's with the nastiness going on here as of late? I remember feeling self conscious being a genuine SMU supporter during the PB years when I was an underclassman. Back then, anyone who expressed optimism regarding the program was called a "sunshiner" and was mocked and ridiculed by the majority. For me at least, those feelings of ridicule and self consciousness have returned.

What I'm wondering is... Why? SMU football is in the best position it has seen since the SWC and all I see on here is [deleted], moaning, and conspiracy theories. It's mind boggling to me that some of you on here think we're on the wrong track. I remember losing to UNT.

It would take me a book to go through it all. I've not made it a secret that I'm ready to move on to a new HC that really wants to be at SMU and can do really well. I was told that JJ took the Arizona State job. To me that means IT'S OVER. I'm not angry about that but still IT'S OVER for me. "They don't give unlimited chances in life."

My Phil Steele magazine says on page 220 "Jones took the Ariz St job prior to the bowl but was back here a wk later."
I don't think he should collect millions of dollars for the job it seems he doesn't really want.

[Bergermeister]

A. I've not made it a secret that I'm ready to move on.

B. I don't think he should collect millions of dollars for the job it seems he doesn't really want.

A. Move on.

B. Withhold your millions.

[PoconoPony]

Everybody is getting on JJ re the Arizona State fiasco and the botched handling of that matter. Let me interject a little outside mitigation and understanding to shed some light on that situation. As I have posted before, JJ and Orsini came to a logger heads on several matters more than 2 years ago that made their working relationship very guarded, contentious, distant and uncomfortable for JJ . JJ lost all respect for Orsini over these matters and Turner frequently found himself as the intermediary. JJ was very content when he arrived a SMU and made it known that he would finish is career at SMU. That changed with the total deterioration of the Orsini relationship. At that point JJ started to look around and the Maryland situation arose 2 years ago then Arizona State this past year. Those situations were largely attributable to the working situation with Orsini making JJ not comfortable at SMU. This was one of the major elements in the firing of Orsini. When Orsini quickly crossed Larry Brown, who immediately lost all regard for Orsini, Turner had to make the decision he made. Obviously, there are a lot of specifics that I am not at liberty to discuss, but the point being made is that things were not right with Orsini for more than 2 years and that had a major impact on JJ's looking around and thinking. I am not defending or taking sides, just providing some insights.

[AusTxPony]

Enquiring minds want to know.

[ojaipony]

June Jones was the right man for the job when he was hired in 2007. He took a moribund program that was as close to death's doorstep as possible and turned us into a consistent winner. That said, it isn't like we went 10-2, 11-1, and 10-2. We have been treading water for three years getting to pad our win totals against Tulane, Rice, Memphis, UTEP, and UAB. Those are five of the ten worst college football programs in America right now. Look anything looks good compared against what were doing before June got here.

The ASU debacle was just that. A debacle. June handled it poorly and has since seen the impact its had on every aspect of the program. You don't think other schools are telling kids "Why go to SMU? The coach doesn't even want to be there." Had it not fallen through at the last gasp June would be in Arizona right now. Don't believe the fluff that he never accepted the job. The job was accepted and they backed out. If Orsini had any balls June would've been fired the next day after publicly humiliating SMU. But Orsini got his so I guess its karma.

I for one think SMU has the potential to be an elite football program. Not just good or decent....ELITE. With the right pieces in place this could be the next Boise State or TCU. I have no doubt in my mind about that. We have the $$$, facilities, location, and infrastructure to excel here. 25 years of being terrible have drastically lowered the expectations of most the posters on this board. Think of it this way: We have only been committed to trying to win at football for five years. In those five years we have come a very long way, but why be satisfied with 8-5? I don't know. I guess 8-5 is pretty cute. I just think people need to hold this program to the level of excellence it deserves.

Great post. I agree with the ELITE comments and holding the program to excellence, for sure.

I went to SMU in the early 90s so that gives you my perspective - and I've seen videos of the Pony Express years so I know what's POSSIBLE. I feel we are SO close. And I've been pretty surprised so far by next year's recruiting but I'm holding out hope that it's still early and we'll land some higher rated talent, like Ricky Seals-Jones! (I think I'm the only one that thinks we'll get him ... hope LB gets on it).

[NomAnor]

Sigh.You guys should all just get drunk one night drive over to TCU and beat up some frogs steal some chicks and then get on the same page.

[Topper]

You're not alone BigT. I love going into the season with optimism, but for some folks (that I just don't understand) cannot resist bringing us down. It's in their nature to continue the negativity, I guess, not just once but repeatedly... It must be [deleted] the players to read this board, not to mention their parents and students and future students, but I think the mods can't do anything about it. So there you have it. I have noticed much less activity here. probably for that reason.

I have complained in the past about people who post on this board who insult our players and call them names when they have bad games. Why this sort of behavior persists I can't tell you other than to speculate that these anonymous poison pen letter writers lack a modicum of maturity. Last season one of the starters who played most of the season with a painful injury that affected his perfomance was called a "clown" when he had a subpar game. When I complained about the post, the poster and his allies attacked me and said that these players are not kids and need to get used to this sort of abuse. That their right to name call is part of the game. One person even identified himself as a parent of a player ( I doubt it ) and told me that he actually approves of his son being called names if he doesn't play well. You cannot reason with this mentality so let it go.

[PSCA]

I have Waaaaaay to much free time on my hands today.

The world is full of "Glass Half Full and Glass Half Empty" folks. I guess you could argue it’s 50/50, and that phenomenon is well represented on this board. Count me in with the Glass Half Full crowd. Or as a boss many years ago told me "Quit Trying to Pick the Fly S--- out of the Pepper". We do need each other. I don’t think that anyone in either camp is suggesting … Hey 8-5, great we reached the summit. These coaches and players are competitive, and so are the fans on this board … we want to run the table. However, to suggest that we have somehow stalled out and it’s time for a change …. Hmmmm I don’t know about that. Last year’s 8-5 season was an improvement over the prior season …. I don’t just refer to our record either. A) Victory on the road over a top 20 opponent, 2) Defeat the defending conference champ 3) Play two other top 25 programs very well .. in the game late … no morale victory’s, we got beat 4) Beat a second BSC school, this time soundly in a bowl game 5) A "D" that finishes in the Top 26 in the Nation .. Note: I happen to think our "D" is more than a good LITTLE conference USA "D" as was suggested in a different post. They are a good "D" period for any conf, and the "D" that finished the year was not the "D" A&M saw game 1 and it will not be the "D" they see games 3 this season IMO.

If SMU was a corporation … heck publicly traded if you want. If the prior 25 years leading up to the last 4 produced loses, turnover, lost rev/customer base … bleeding profusely etc. Then, a new CEO comes in with his management team and the last 3 years we are operating solidly in the black, while hitting some nice milestones and targets … investors, customers, and employees would be ecstatic. That management team would be given support to keep on trucking. Now, if in another 2-3-4 years all remains the same (not based on record alone) … you MIGHT make the argument that we have stalled out and it’s time for an infusion of new blood and ideas.

Personally, I don’t think the ASU issue is a big deal. While some colleges may have gotten some millage out of it in their recruiting efforts early on … I don’t think this means squat now to these young guys. These kids are worldly enough nowadays, they understand the opportunity to better one’s self. Plus, I don’t know that we have the full story on that .. Coach Jones is a private guy as we know. These young guys probably have examples of this at home with family. However, I do think this board does a heck of a job keeping it alive and well.

IMO, we do eat our own way too often on this board … I don’t think it’s right or productive. I don’t mean questioning a play or call … what happen … why did he ying and not yang. I mean the personal attacks on these young players are not right. Especially given the fact that not one of us … or very few even understand the "O" or "D" well enough to determine who truly messed up vs. the one we blame. Or, do we see and understand what one guy is being asked to do in order to set-up a teammate to make the play. Lots of time the decoy looks like he got washed out on a play, but on further review … he did a heck of a job. Going to some of the Monday Lunches and seeing the film and hearing the coach (esp. Mason) has taught me that. Now, do the guys read this board … I doubt it. They have been known to smile and chuckle when they are told some of the FACTS as we it. So, let’s ask good questions and have good debates … but leave the .. He sucks, He can’t play, what a Clown, what an embarrassment .. etc. on the sideline. I trust the coaches are a better judge of talent then we are … this includes recruiting irrespective of what Rivals say’s or how many stars they put by his name. Yes, I think the star rating is flawed and over rated. This post is long enough … I could give you example after example of the players that got missed. But, I’ll leave you with one we are all familiar with … Case Keenum UH … via 3A Abilene Wylie.

[AusTxPony]

^^Exactly^^

[Rebel10]

I have Waaaaaay to much free time on my hands today.

The world is full of "Glass Half Full and Glass Half Empty" folks. I guess you could argue it’s 50/50, and that phenomenon is well represented on this board. Count me in with the Glass Half Full crowd. Or as a boss many years ago told me "Quit Trying to Pick the Fly S--- out of the Pepper". We do need each other. I don’t think that anyone in either camp is suggesting … Hey 8-5, great we reached the summit. These coaches and players are competitive, and so are the fans on this board … we want to run the table. However, to suggest that we have somehow stalled out and it’s time for a change …. Hmmmm I don’t know about that. Last year’s 8-5 season was an improvement over the prior season …. I don’t just refer to our record either. A) Victory on the road over a top 20 opponent, 2) Defeat the defending conference champ 3) Play two other top 25 programs very well .. in the game late … no morale victory’s, we got beat 4) Beat a second BSC school, this time soundly in a bowl game 5) A "D" that finishes in the Top 26 in the Nation .. Note: I happen to think our "D" is more than a good LITTLE conference USA "D" as was suggested in a different post. They are a good "D" period for any conf, and the "D" that finished the year was not the "D" A&M saw game 1 and it will not be the "D" they see games 3 this season IMO.

If SMU was a corporation … heck publicly traded if you want. If the prior 25 years leading up to the last 4 produced loses, turnover, lost rev/customer base … bleeding profusely etc. Then, a new CEO comes in with his management team and the last 3 years we are operating solidly in the black, while hitting some nice milestones and targets … investors, customers, and employees would be ecstatic. That management team would be given support to keep on trucking. Now, if in another 2-3-4 years all remains the same (not based on record alone) … you MIGHT make the argument that we have stalled out and it’s time for an infusion of new blood and ideas.

Personally, I don’t think the ASU issue is a big deal. While some colleges may have gotten some millage out of it in their recruiting efforts early on … I don’t think this means squat now to these young guys. These kids are worldly enough nowadays, they understand the opportunity to better one’s self. Plus, I don’t know that we have the full story on that .. Coach Jones is a private guy as we know. These young guys probably have examples of this at home with family. However, I do think this board does a heck of a job keeping it alive and well.

IMO, we do eat our own way too often on this board … I don’t think it’s right or productive. I don’t mean questioning a play or call … what happen … why did he ying and not yang. I mean the personal attacks on these young players are not right. Especially given the fact that not one of us … or very few even understand the "O" or "D" well enough to determine who truly messed up vs. the one we blame. Or, do we see and understand what one guy is being asked to do in order to set-up a teammate to make the play. Lots of time the decoy looks like he got washed out on a play, but on further review … he did a heck of a job. Going to some of the Monday Lunches and seeing the film and hearing the coach (esp. Mason) has taught me that. Now, do the guys read this board … I doubt it. They have been known to smile and chuckle when they are told some of the FACTS as we it. So, let’s ask good questions and have good debates … but leave the .. He sucks, He can’t play, what a Clown, what an embarrassment .. etc. on the sideline. I trust the coaches are a better judge of talent then we are … this includes recruiting irrespective of what Rivals say’s or how many stars they put by his name. Yes, I think the star rating is flawed and over rated. This post is long enough … I could give you example after example of the players that got missed. But, I’ll leave you with one we are all familiar with … Case Keenum UH … via 3A Abilene Wylie.

Not many are talking about stars, most are talking about BCS offers so your comment is flawed. If JJ does not go to a bowl game for 2 years straight that should be it not 4 straight years of not going to a bowl game. It is a FACT that JJ has said for years we have a lack of depth. That is usually due to poor recruiting. Let's see if he still says that now. Majority of teams in BCS conferences do not win consistently by loading up with project players and players that got missed.

[PSCA]

My comment is not flawed … there has been countless discussion on this board about player’s star ratings and in particular when will we stop going after /getting the 2-3’s and until we do, we will not reach that next level … countless conversations on the subject. The star rating is so subjectively flawed … any coach will tell you that. You are correct, BCS offers have also been mentioned, and if you think that is the criteria to access the value of your recruiting class w/o consideration to other factors.. go ahead. I’ll choose the knowledge of my coaching staff and the hours they spend viewing film, visiting with coaches, players, games etc. Not sure who is suggesting were are filling our cabinets with project players … unless again we are placing value on the stars and now BCS offers, and not the knowledge of the staff and their own eyes. More players get missed then you can imagine, that’s why schools place a premium on the walk-on program which is a challenge for SMU … they hope they decide to come to their program and recruit them. Missing on a player is not just that … (they didn’t know he was there, and that happens) it can be … only so many offers and who gets it.

There was no suggestion of not going to a bowl for two years … four years etc. as not the right time for a "Back to Jesus" moment for the program and those involved. My irrespective of record comment was geared towards 8-5 vs. 10-3 and somehow the one be clear evidence of the program being stagnate and change is needed. Our company is headed (I believe) in the right direction. Until the staff proves otherwise, they have earned our support and confidence IMO.

Coach Jones has spoken about the lack of depth … more so earlier in the program then now. Coaches always talk about the need for more and better depth …. That’s the life blood to any system, and they always want to improve that. But Coach Junes was clear to say last year about the depth they now have in the "D" in general, and the LB’s specifically as well as other positions. Do we need more, absolutely. If I catch what you are saying, you are suggesting that because we lack stars or BCS offers, we are not building for our future … I respectfully disagree.

[goldenstang]

I would just be happy to get some players that other teams are interested in. I judge a player off of what I see and who offered and how many offers they have. I could not care less about the number of stars. It is obvious that higher rated kids have a better chance of making it but it is not the end all and be all. June no doubt is good at developing and finding talent but he does have a lot of misses as well. It is evident that some of these kids have a lot of talent but have slid under the radar.

I don't want to single anyone out but a few of these kids come from some of the most recruited high schools in the nation and still only have an offer from us. You can't really say a kid is under the radar if 100 college coaches are coming and going from their campus constantly. That is a lot of coaches that had an opportunity to make an offer and decided to pass for whatever reason. I think it is perfectly fine if some of us scratch our head and wonder about our recruiting. That's fine if you want to put your faith in JJ and co when it comes to recruiting, I will too if JJ is the only one that has seen him or even 1 of 10 but when it gets closer to 20 or 30 or more that have seen a kid and passed well then I am going to believe they are right and not June.