SMU Football Fan Culture

[whitwiki]

I have Waaaaaay to much free time on my hands today.

The world is full of "Glass Half Full and Glass Half Empty" folks. I guess you could argue it’s 50/50, and that phenomenon is well represented on this board. Count me in with the Glass Half Full crowd. Or as a boss many years ago told me "Quit Trying to Pick the Fly S--- out of the Pepper". We do need each other. I don’t think that anyone in either camp is suggesting … Hey 8-5, great we reached the summit. These coaches and players are competitive, and so are the fans on this board … we want to run the table. However, to suggest that we have somehow stalled out and it’s time for a change …. Hmmmm I don’t know about that. Last year’s 8-5 season was an improvement over the prior season …. I don’t just refer to our record either. A) Victory on the road over a top 20 opponent, 2) Defeat the defending conference champ 3) Play two other top 25 programs very well .. in the game late … no morale victory’s, we got beat 4) Beat a second BSC school, this time soundly in a bowl game 5) A "D" that finishes in the Top 26 in the Nation .. Note: I happen to think our "D" is more than a good LITTLE conference USA "D" as was suggested in a different post. They are a good "D" period for any conf, and the "D" that finished the year was not the "D" A&M saw game 1 and it will not be the "D" they see games 3 this season IMO.

If SMU was a corporation … heck publicly traded if you want. If the prior 25 years leading up to the last 4 produced loses, turnover, lost rev/customer base … bleeding profusely etc. Then, a new CEO comes in with his management team and the last 3 years we are operating solidly in the black, while hitting some nice milestones and targets … investors, customers, and employees would be ecstatic. That management team would be given support to keep on trucking. Now, if in another 2-3-4 years all remains the same (not based on record alone) … you MIGHT make the argument that we have stalled out and it’s time for an infusion of new blood and ideas.

Personally, I don’t think the ASU issue is a big deal. While some colleges may have gotten some millage out of it in their recruiting efforts early on … I don’t think this means squat now to these young guys. These kids are worldly enough nowadays, they understand the opportunity to better one’s self. Plus, I don’t know that we have the full story on that .. Coach Jones is a private guy as we know. These young guys probably have examples of this at home with family. However, I do think this board does a heck of a job keeping it alive and well.

IMO, we do eat our own way too often on this board … I don’t think it’s right or productive. I don’t mean questioning a play or call … what happen … why did he ying and not yang. I mean the personal attacks on these young players are not right. Especially given the fact that not one of us … or very few even understand the "O" or "D" well enough to determine who truly messed up vs. the one we blame. Or, do we see and understand what one guy is being asked to do in order to set-up a teammate to make the play. Lots of time the decoy looks like he got washed out on a play, but on further review … he did a heck of a job. Going to some of the Monday Lunches and seeing the film and hearing the coach (esp. Mason) has taught me that. Now, do the guys read this board … I doubt it. They have been known to smile and chuckle when they are told some of the FACTS as we it. So, let’s ask good questions and have good debates … but leave the .. He sucks, He can’t play, what a Clown, what an embarrassment .. etc. on the sideline. I trust the coaches are a better judge of talent then we are … this includes recruiting irrespective of what Rivals say’s or how many stars they put by his name. Yes, I think the star rating is flawed and over rated. This post is long enough … I could give you example after example of the players that got missed. But, I’ll leave you with one we are all familiar with … Case Keenum UH … via 3A Abilene Wylie.

as an engineer, I would tell you that the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.

[PSCA]

as an engineer, I would tell you that the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.

I like that

[PSCA]

[quote][/quote]I would just be happy to get some players that other teams are interested in. I judge a player off of what I see and who offered and how many offers they have. I could not care less about the number of stars. It is obvious that higher rated kids have a better chance of making it but it is not the end all and be all. June no doubt is good at developing and finding talent but he does have a lot of misses as well. It is evident that some of these kids have a lot of talent but have slid under the radar.

I don't want to single anyone out but a few of these kids come from some of the most recruited high schools in the nation and still only have an offer from us. You can't really say a kid is under the radar if 100 college coaches are coming and going from their campus constantly. That is a lot of coaches that had an opportunity to make an offer and decided to pass for whatever reason. I think it is perfectly fine if some of us scratch our head and wonder about our recruiting. That's fine if you want to put your faith in JJ and co when it comes to recruiting, I will too if JJ is the only one that has seen him or even 1 of 10 but when it gets closer to 20 or 30 or more that have seen a kid and passed well then I am going to believe they are right and not June.

I will not be censored!!!!

All good points ... I'm not suggesting that my head goes un-scratched. As a player and coach, I've done both with Can't miss guys and how did we miss this guy

[Rebel10]

My comment is not flawed … there has been countless discussion on this board about player’s star ratings and in particular when will we stop going after /getting the 2-3’s and until we do, we will not reach that next level … countless conversations on the subject. The star rating is so subjectively flawed … any coach will tell you that. You are correct, BCS offers have also been mentioned, and if you think that is the criteria to access the value of your recruiting class w/o consideration to other factors.. go ahead. I’ll choose the knowledge of my coaching staff and the hours they spend viewing film, visiting with coaches, players, games etc. Not sure who is suggesting were are filling our cabinets with project players … unless again we are placing value on the stars and now BCS offers, and not the knowledge of the staff and their own eyes. More players get missed then you can imagine, that’s why schools place a premium on the walk-on program which is a challenge for SMU … they hope they decide to come to their program and recruit them. Missing on a player is not just that … (they didn’t know he was there, and that happens) it can be … only so many offers and who gets it.

There was no suggestion of not going to a bowl for two years … four years etc. as not the right time for a "Back to Jesus" moment for the program and those involved. My irrespective of record comment was geared towards 8-5 vs. 10-3 and somehow the one be clear evidence of the program being stagnate and change is needed. Our company is headed (I believe) in the right direction. Until the staff proves otherwise, they have earned our support and confidence IMO.

Coach Jones has spoken about the lack of depth … more so earlier in the program then now. Coaches always talk about the need for more and better depth …. That’s the life blood to any system, and they always want to improve that. But Coach Junes was clear to say last year about the depth they now have in the "D" in general, and the LB’s specifically as well as other positions. Do we need more, absolutely. If I catch what you are saying, you are suggesting that because we lack stars or BCS offers, we are not building for our future … I respectfully disagree.

Your comment is flawed period. Coach Jones said that this year would be a "down" year talent wise on video tape. That is due to poor recruiting over 4 years. PB's players represented all of the offensive line as well as our main receiver Beas who committed under PB but signed under Jones. Again, what school in a BCS conference has won consistently with diamond in the rough players that have to change positions and under recruited players that other teams have supposedly missed? Please answer.

[PSCA]

So, there has never been numerous conversations regarding the star rating and the star value of our recruits, and not just on this site, but Rivals … and some way, how that translates into we have inferior athletics and will not compete at the next level …. OK my bad, you are right, my comments flawed.

Never said JJ has not commented on a lack of depth, nor did I suggest we don’t need more of it. I said his comments have been less now on the subject then the early days. Are you saying he has not, more then a few times commented to the depth on "D", and the fact we can start to rest the 1’s on special team because of this depth … we are not reading or listening to the same stuff. I know Mason will tell you he’s got depth, but he needs/wants more.

I never said or suggested that BCS or any D1 program builds success or sustainability with project players or we missed one guys. That comment was in reference to what I believe to be countless inferences on this board that some how our recruits are project players, inferior, can’t take us to the next level. I disagree. To be sure, players do to get missed and passed over everyday. TCU made its turn to relevancy on the backs of the small town Kids that the Big Boys either did not want, or did not take the time to look at. There was an article 5-6 years ago where Paterson was quoted as saying, "I go after those guys the big boys do not usually look at, I like recruiting small town kids from good programs". These are not diamond in the rough players, but they are not low hanging fruit or even sitting on the ground … you have to go find them and shake the bushes. I’m getting off track. I don’t believe are current players or recruits are project players, and I could care less that Texas did not want them, or offer them.

This is all just my perspective, and I respect and accept you disagree.

[Rebel10]

So, there has never been numerous conversations regarding the star rating and the star value of our recruits, and not just on this site, but Rivals … and some way, how that translates into we have inferior athletics and will not compete at the next level …. OK my bad, you are right, my comments flawed.

Never said JJ has not commented on a lack of depth, nor did I suggest we don’t need more of it. I said his comments have been less now on the subject then the early days. Are you saying he has not, more then a few times commented to the depth on "D", and the fact we can start to rest the 1’s on special team because of this depth … we are not reading or listening to the same stuff. I know Mason will tell you he’s got depth, but he needs/wants more.

I never said or suggested that BCS or any D1 program builds success or sustainability with project players or we missed one guys. That comment was in reference to what I believe to be countless inferences on this board that some how our recruits are project players, inferior, can’t take us to the next level. I disagree. To be sure, players do to get missed and passed over everyday. TCU made its turn to relevancy on the backs of the small town Kids that the Big Boys either did not want, or did not take the time to look at. There was an article 5-6 years ago where Paterson was quoted as saying, "I go after those guys the big boys do not usually look at, I like recruiting small town kids from good programs". These are not diamond in the rough players, but they are not low hanging fruit or even sitting on the ground … you have to go find them and shake the bushes. I’m getting off track. I don’t believe are current players or recruits are project players, and I could care less that Texas did not want them, or offer them.

This is all just my perspective, and I respect and accept you disagree.

JJ did say on video that this would be a "down" year in talent. You can try to spin it how you want but that is what he said. That means poor recruiting over 4 years. TCU (which has won several battles against BCS teams in recruiting) is just now a BCS team this year so my question did not apply to them. We will see how TCU does this year. Also, we are offering mostly kids from schools that BCS schools recruit heavily not school some that OSU does not know about. Not only is Texas not offering but no other BCS school either and they have seen them. But back to my original question asked in your terms, what BCS school has won conference championships by recruiting players that other BCS programs do not go after? Please answer.

[ponyte]

We may have a 'down' year in talent (though I suspect we have an up year in a lot of positions), it can easily be overcome with a modest change in our pathetic turnover ratio the last two years. We have successes without being successful in creating turnovers (especially last year). Change that and the 'down' talent will look like a major upgrade.

We have placed our players at many severe disadvantages because we didn't create turnovers.

[Grant Carter]

I do enjoy how on one hand some people act like much of what June says is likely untrue, but he throws out some coachspeak about how we are losing a bunch of people off the team from last year and all of a sudden it is the gospel for those same people.

[StallionsModelT]

This will be the most talented and deep SMU team since the DP. If Gilbert can play to his ability there isn't one team on the schedule we can't compete with.

[redandtheblue]

I agree with Stallions. If Gilbert plays at a 5star level, we are competitive with every team on our schedule.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

[StallionsModelT]

If we are going to bust through and have a banner 10 or 11 win season, this is it. We don't know what kind of Big East schedule we're going to get next year but we know we'll have a very tough road in nonconference w/ games against Texas Tech, Baylor, Texas A&M, and TCU. Then we know that we'll be playing Boise State, Houston, and San Diego State in BE play. Hard to imagine us putting together a double digit win season with that schedule especially with the graduations of Margus Hunt, Torlon Pittman, Ja'Gared Davis, Taylor Reed, Cameron Rogers, and Ryan Smith on defense.

June needs to get to 9 wins this year. It won't be easy but we play the vast majority of our more difficult games at home. Time to earn that 2M.

[PSCA]

Ok, this I my last post on this subject, we our obviously going in circles. This is a conversation that might be better served over a few beers … again all opinion .. at least mine.

I have not suggested or made the statement JJ never commented on a lack of depth (talent); I think that can be clearly seen in my post. Saying your talent is down does not mean a failure in recruiting … and a lot of this can be coach speak. Guys leave the program earlier for many reasons and talent (young talent) develops at various rates and stages. But JJ has said on video and interviews that we have depth on defense many times…and recently. So my position is his comment is not in Totality for the team but more for specific areas. You will not or have not acknowledged his comments on the "D". So, you are right … you can spin this to fit your needs. I’m assuming you are taking his statement to mean we have failed in our recruiting efforts and that we have zero depth/talent on this team … I do not.

TCU; was not referring to them as a BCS school. I was referencing what Gary Paterson said was their recruiting philosophy while building the foundation that has brought them to today. Is it still there mission statement … I don’t know. The can certainly compete now for the same guys that the others go after. My point, his point, there are some quality players in the Monahan’s, Andrews, Wimberley’s etc of the world … you can multiply that by 49 states. Big schools do not typically hit these towns w/o a compelling story. UT would haven ever graced the door step of very small 2A Jim Ned … Tuscola TX if not for some very aggressive and unique strategies of one Brad McCoy. Colt was as advertised. I’m making the suggestion that maybe SMU is employing some of this strategy in their recruiting effort … and to suggest that maybe the world is now coming to end for SMU because some of our recruits lack stars or BCS offers is miss-guided. There is a finite amount of BCS scholarships, a finite amount of D1 scholarships, and a finite yet much larger group (supply) of high school players … I think we can figure the math and logistics of that equation. That all has to fit into a school needs and projections, and one reason why BCS schools can be at the same HS program and offer some and not others. They might think the kid is capable, but 4th on that HS prospect list so they go down the road, or they are focusing on a specific kid or position need. Or, as you say, they don’t think he has it for them. A lot of these kids get serious looks by the BCS boys .. but no offers.

Answer your question … Hmmm how do I answer a question or defend a position that I never took or asked. Can you answer the flip of that question? Neither you nor I can, unless we have access to some very in-depth and detailed information and the ability and time to track it. Maybe we are taking each too literally in our comments. Are you suggesting that NO BCS and/or conference champion school has missed on a player, or that no BCS school has a current player(s) .. productive player(s) on their roster that was not offered by either them or any other BCS school. Walk-ons that become players, and that happens everyday, epitomize that. Again, we are talking scholarship offers not that they are being looked at … and not every kid UT offers is likewise offered by OU, OSU or whomever … sometimes the kid only gets one BCS offer. Or in the case of Case K … only 1 D1 offer … and they all missed on him. There are a lot of quality players in the non BCS, 1AA, and D2 ranks. Look no further west then D2 ACU and the number of players they have put in the NFL recently. I did not and I’m not suggesting that the cupboards of the BCS boys are filled with as you and others have put it … project players ... diamond in the rough types … have to switch positions, players no other BCS wanted. I recognize that SMU is not yet at a level where they can successfully compete for the likes of Jonathan Gray, RGIII etc. … but those types are the exception and at the head of the class.

Ok, I’m exhausted. I appreciate you insight and the friendly banter.

[goldenstang]

I do enjoy how on one hand some people act like much of what June says is likely untrue, but he throws out some coachspeak about how we are losing a bunch of people off the team from last year and all of a sudden it is the gospel for those same people.

This can be said the other way around as well.

[goldenstang]

We may have a 'down' year in talent (though I suspect we have an up year in a lot of positions), it can easily be overcome with a modest change in our pathetic turnover ratio the last two years. We have successes without being successful in creating turnovers (especially last year). Change that and the 'down' talent will look like a major upgrade.

We have placed our players at many severe disadvantages because we didn't create turnovers.

This is so true

[Grant Carter]

I do enjoy how on one hand some people act like much of what June says is likely untrue, but he throws out some coachspeak about how we are losing a bunch of people off the team from last year and all of a sudden it is the gospel for those same people.

This can be said the other way around as well.

Yes, as I posted the other day it goes both ways. I was responding to the specific reference in this thread.