Run n' Shoot

[SmooPower]

How many 3rd downs did we convert - 1 maybe. This offense cannot convert on third and one and is horrible on the red zone. It is played.

The one time we did convert it was on a run, running on 3rd and short what a [deleted] novel idea.

3rd and 8: Sack -9 yards
3rd and 2: Incomplete pass
3rd and 5: Sack -5 yards, fumble (recovered by SMU)
3rd and 1: Incomplete pass
3rd and 3: QB 2 yard rush
3rd and 1: HB 1 yard rush, first down
3rd and 1: Incomplete pass
3rd and 7: Incomplete pass
3rd and 11: Interception
3rd and 10: Incomplete pass
3rd and 2: Incomplete pass
3rd and 7 / Goal: Pass complete 4 yards
3rd and 3: Sacked -5 yards
3rd and 12: HB 7 yard rush
3rd and 10: HB 9 yard rush
3rd and 2: HB 23 yard rush, first down
3rd and 4: HB 5 yard rush, first down
3rd and 13: Incomplete pass

Of the first 13 3rd down attempts, 12 times dropped back to pass and 0 first downs - 1 rush and 1 first down. Netted -12 yards on those attempts.

One pass completed in 18 third down attempts which was promptly negated by a delay of game anyway.

[Stallion]

A Run and Shoot would NEVER work in the SEC or the Big 12 because about 3 QBs would be out for the season with injuries. Its an unstable, gimmicky offense that wilts against teamms with athletic defenses. In fact, I wonder has a Run and Shoot team ever beaten a good Big 12 team or an SEC team? Tech used a Utility Back much like a mobile TE/FB

[SmooPower]

A Run and Shoot would NEVER work in the SEC or the Big 12 because about 3 QBs would be out for the season with injuries. Its an unstable, gimmicky offense that wilts against teamms with athletic defenses. In fact, I wonder has a Run and Shoot team ever beaten a good Big 12 team or an SEC team? Tech used a Utility Back much like a mobile TE/FB

Hawaii beat Alabama in 2003 and Michigan St in 2004 but probably can't call either of those teams "good".

[Stallion]

yeah I knew about those-and added good

[shadowman]

Are we actually debating whether this is a viable offense?

Maybe it was 20 years ago, but defenses caught up....MOST coaches adapted and made the offense better. Not our boy June though, he thinks that if it worked 20 years ago, it should work today.

Think about how assinine that is?

How lazy and gullible can you be to believe that an offense in a game that is based on innovation and change is still gonna kick butt 20 years later with no changes?

Course, SMU has cruddy players to match this cruddy offense...Either way, it all goes back to June.

[gord]

Are we actually debating whether this is a viable offense?

Maybe it was 20 years ago, but defenses caught up....MOST coaches adapted and made the offense better. Not our boy June though, he thinks that if it worked 20 years ago, it should work today.

Think about how assinine that is?

How lazy and gullible can you be to believe that an offense in a game that is based on innovation and change is still gonna kick butt 20 years later with no changes?

Course, SMU has cruddy players to match this cruddy offense...Either way, it all goes back to June.

Please see my post where I pointed out that this offense led the nation in total offense just six years ago and was third in 2007. It isn't a matter of defenses catching up with it, it's the players that's running it. Please show me an offense that succeeds with poor players. (You actually made a salient point with what I bolded.)

And since there seems to be so many tactical geniuses in here, please compare and contrast SMU's offense with other 4-wideout offenses like Mike Leach's, Baylor's and Oklahoma State/West Virginia's. Thanks. (And saying their's works and ours doesn't won't count. Hint - it has to do with players.)

[PonySnob]

Shorten "shoot" by one letter, and change the "O" vowel to an "I." Then you will have a more accurate statement.

A+

[ponyscott]

Its done...stick a fork in this staff and their insistence to stick with an archaic POS.

[kull]

offense has been ineffective
we have a new qb and will take lumps in the system
the OL play is average, and a young patch work group so the qb will take lumps
we havent reached conference play yet
we are not running the pure RnS

[RGV Pony]

we are not running the pure RnS

Haven't yet and likely won't.

At some point -despite the 4 years worth of chalk talk where we are shown that everyone is open on every play for TD-its time to admit its not going to work.

Personnel, recruiting, scheme are no-shows. In the 5th year of a regime, guess who bears the responsibility for that?

We have a "young patchwork oline" because ALL OF BENNETT'S GUYS GRADUATED. We have a new qb because JUNE RAN OFF AND/OR FAILED TO DEVELOP THE ONES HE BROUGHT IN.

No disrespect to you, kull, but I defy anyone to dispute any of the above.

I hope like crazy Burcham doesn't transfer before June's successor gets a chance to develop him.

[lwjr]

I think the D is ok but when the offense converts only 3 out of 18 third down chances they are going to wear down. The D is going to be fine come CUSA games. But while we should be tuning up for the BE we seem to be sliding backwards. That reflects recruiting and that falls on you know who.
If the offense starts to click in conferense games will the fan base fall into a false security that JJ has straightened this thing out? I hope not. The non conference games are a wake up call for just how far away this team is from playing at the next level.

[mustang1108]

Are we actually debating whether this is a viable offense?

Maybe it was 20 years ago, but defenses caught up....MOST coaches adapted and made the offense better. Not our boy June though, he thinks that if it worked 20 years ago, it should work today.

Think about how assinine that is?

How lazy and gullible can you be to believe that an offense in a game that is based on innovation and change is still gonna kick butt 20 years later with no changes?

Course, SMU has cruddy players to match this cruddy offense...Either way, it all goes back to June.

Please see my post where I pointed out that this offense led the nation in total offense just six years ago and was third in 2007. It isn't a matter of defenses catching up with it, it's the players that's running it. Please show me an offense that succeeds with poor players. (You actually made a salient point with what I bolded.)

And since there seems to be so many tactical geniuses in here, please compare and contrast SMU's offense with other 4-wideout offenses like Mike Leach's, Baylor's and Oklahoma State/West Virginia's. Thanks. (And saying their's works and ours doesn't won't count. Hint - it has to do with players.)

Stop using 2006 and 2007 to compare this offense. Who did Hawaii play in those years? No one very good besides Georgia who crushed them in the Sugar Bowl. And as good as Boise has been those were some of their down years as Kellen Moore and Doug Martin were either being redshirted or in high school still. Look at how SMU has done against teams in our conference and FCS teams. The offense is good in weaker conferences, but it wouldn't stand a chance in any BCS Conference the athletes are too good on the other side of the ball.

[kull]

We have a "young patchwork oline" because ALL OF BENNETT'S GUYS GRADUATED. We have a new qb because JUNE RAN OFF AND/OR FAILED TO DEVELOP THE ONES HE BROUGHT IN.

when the new regime came in they developed young talent on the roster. we lost the entire starting OL on a middle/high ranking CUSA team. we are rebuilding, and the young OL needs playing time to get better, its the only way. i don't know what everyone was expecting this year. I am not pleased with the teams performance thus far, but its early in the season and we have to start conference play.

we can do better in recruiting (and always want to), but that can be said for every team in FBS or FCS. this staff has a reputation for developing talent which is essential especially for mid majors. let the season play out...

[gord]

BCS teams Hawai'i beat from 2003-07:

Alabama
Northwestern
Michigan State
Arizona State
Purdue
Boise State
Washington

If this offense is so outdated, please explain how it differs from other 4-wideout offenses that successful teams, like Oklahoma State, West Virginia and Baylor, use.

[GiddyUp]

BCS teams Hawai'i beat from 2003-07:

Alabama
Northwestern
Michigan State
Arizona State
Purdue
Boise State
Washington

If this offense is so outdated, please explain how it differs from other 4-wideout offenses that successful teams, like Oklahoma State, West Virginia and Baylor, use.

That is nice, just not sure you could work with it in the SEC or BIg 12. I am not claiming to be in the know at all - but don't those other wideouts have actual routes vs the OL, WR, and QB having to read the defense?