Just Wow - ND

[EastStang]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she ... e/?hpid=z4

Interesting story.

[Treadway21]

Thanks. Hadn't heard about the assaults, but like Penn State, that would ruin the great ND comeback story. The national media has just as much at stake as ND does so circle the wagons.

Does it really surprise anyone that ND reacted the way they did. Too much prestige and money involved. Sad story and a sad state of affairs.

[SMUguy]

I won't be cheering for Notre Dame because I never cheer for Notre Dame in anything.
This, however, is a horrifying story. Very sad. Thoughts are with the victims and their families.

[TWALV33]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/ ... -football/

another one.... I honestly had heard nothing about any of this

[Treadway21]

Good article. I was going to mention Kelly sending the kid up in the tower. I really dislike Kelly.

"Notre Dame fans are frontrunning snobs nowhere to be found when the Irish are 3-9." says it all. It also describes Texas fans.

[Mexmustang]

Thanks to both of you for finding these. Every Friday I have lunch with several ND boosters and relished the opportunity to get revenge for their arrogance--until I read the content of the two articles. This is exactly the Penn State situation. Nothing funny about it--two students died and a third will have major problems moving forward with her life--and ND football was deemed more important.

[alamocitystang]

This is why I don't want thugs on the team no matter how good they are. But how does this author know the facts? Suicide doesn't make you right. And ND, like SMU, has a vested interest in keeping these stories out of the public eye no matter if they are true or not. People, as evidenced by the nasty responses after the comments of some reactive feminist, are lying in wait to say bad things about Notre Dame. And you idiots don't realize that half of DFW can't wait til SMU gets brought down either. Jealousy is a lousy, clouding judgement thing.


I had a friend in high school that was falsely accused of tape because the girl couldn't face the consequences of her drunken actions. This was a fluff piece with absolutely no evidence cited. What a deleted deleted.

[ponyte]

Ped State had a significant investigation that resulted in criminal charges and a conviction. So we know what happen there. We don't know for sure what happened at NDU

These stories are based on situations and circumstances without all the facts. As sordid as these tales are, they are still just tales.

This is much like the sexual assault charge against our player that was eventually not based on facts. And we all remember those horrid Duke Lacrosse players that raped and pillaged.

Until the facts are in, it pains me to not jump to judgment against NDU. And I hate NDU as much as TU.

[Mexmustang]

You are right in your points. We had two SMU players in the same situation and after over two years they were finally acquited (I believe/hope).

But, the fact is two kids are dead--girls don't kill themselves when they get drunk and refuse to take responsibily for their behavior and how do you rationalize the tower?

[CalallenStang]

I am a believer in innocent until proven guilty. On the charges put forth in the article, I believe that Notre Dame is "innocent, pending independent investigation," and that an investigation should begin immediately.

On the tower incident, I thought that ND should have fired Brian Kelly immediately as the facts are well-known and finite. That said, I will not hold the players responsible for Brian Kelly's transgressions.

[Rayburn]

I believe reserving judgement until the facts are in. It wouldn't surprise me at all to know some Notre Dame players had engaged in criminal activity, but the author of the article, Melinda Henneberger has a tendency toward hyperbole.

[leopold]

I don't know what the story is or what happened to the girl - my heart goes out to the girl and her family.

But the kid deserves to be innocent until proven guilty - anybody remember the story posted in the forum a few months ago about the high school player who went to jail for 4 years after being accused of rape only to get out and have the girl admit she lied?

I'M NOT SAYING SOMEONE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING - I'm saying people are innocent until proven guilty, and don't be the biased alumni that thinks their university or team is above anybody else (like, some would argue, Notre Dame).

[Junior]

I always have a problem with the assertion that everyone HAS to be presumed innocent in the media until actually convicted.

Am I to presume that the crazy Army doc that killed all those soldiers at Fort Hood is innocent solely because he has not been convicted? What about the movie theater guy in Colorado? Do you consider him to be innocent at this stage just because a judge hasn't hammered his gavel while yelling guilty?

I get what you're saying, but I think it's utterly ridiculous and somewhat irresponsible to assume that everyone is innocent until a formal conviction is handed down.

[Junior]

And I get that you qualified your post as well. I'm not trying to make it sound like you made the claim that he must be innocent.

[Digetydog]

You are right in your points. We had two SMU players in the same situation and after over two years they were finally acquited (I believe/hope).

But, the fact is two kids are dead--girls don't kill themselves when they get drunk and refuse to take responsibily for their behavior and how do you rationalize the tower?

Simply put, the circumstances behind a date rape make it very difficult for anyone to know what truly happened. Almost all of us know someone who was the victim of a sexual assault and any allegation is a serious issue.

Earlier this year, Xavier expelled a man on the basketball team for an alleged sexual assault. Apparently, some sort of school "honor" court found him guilty of the offense and kicked him out. But, the real police and the real DA investigated and found the evidence so lacking that they refused to file charges against the man. Was the school right or was the justice system right?

I think that the investigation and prosecution of alleged cases of sexual assualt should always be handled by real police and real prosecutors. If the Sandusky fiasco taught us anything, it was that Universities should not be involved in investigating serious crimes. With the possible exception of taking temporary action to protect the victim such as banning the accused from campus, schools should generally defer to the justice system and stay out of it.