Observations from Happy Hour

[Stallion]

Look SMU was playing at BCS level back then. I don't think Simonton, Viloria or Swann would start at that level. They may have walked-on, played on special teams and may got a few starts here and there but there is a reason they weren't recruited to play at that level and why they didn't play even at the Indoor Football League or NFL Europe level either.

[jtstang]

If players making the pros is the prime indicator of the quality of your football program, then doesn't that make Grambling like the greatest college football powerhouse of all time?

[huntnfish]

Still you have not answered my question on why you think a guy who was 1st Team All SWC could not play for the Mustangs in the 1980s when he was judged as one of the best in the same conference against the same teams- and who besides Moten would have started in front of him- still waiting for the logic behind your answer

Also, I did not realize that only if you played pro ball that qualified you as a great college player- that means McIllheny was not a great because he did not play pro ball and we all now how ludicrous that statement would be. Also, your same logic if applied across some of your other greats would knock out those great who played in the 40's, 50's and 60's before integration. There are way too many holes in your argument, yet you don't quantify your answers

[OldPony]

I don't think they were as good as Billy Bob Stewart or Jerry Griffin either. I do believe they could have started for most SMU teams over the years- just not the very top ones. If you win all SWC recognition and nothing beyond, it kind of relegates you to "Mustang Great Lite" but it is better than most achieve and there is nothing wrong with honoring those who did make all conference. There are many who didn't get any better awards or none at all but I thouroughly ejoyed watching them play. Take a bow Pat Gibson, Albon Head, Pinky Clements, Frankie Stringer,Bobby Goodrich, Mike Livingston, Mac White and a whole lot more Mustangs that made football fun on Saturdays.

[Stallion]

three All-Americans I forgot definitely should be added Emanuel Tolbert, Chuck Hixson and Robert Polpelka. Mike Ford prior to his injury. I answered the question-you just don't like the answer.

[huntnfish]

no you haven't, you just named two additional players Tolbert (WR) and Popelka (DB) from the 1970's- we are talking linebackers- and Tolbert is a gem as a person, he is a habitual rape offender, you can have him on your team

question was name a LB in the 1980's (besides Moten, he would be the best, I agree) who was 1st Team All SWC and would start in front of Swann, Bordano, or even Viloria

second question, since they had to play pro ball to be great then McIllheny can't be on your great team, even though he is one of the best

your logic is flawed, and you and everyone else knows it, just keep dodging

[Stallion]

ALL of them. If you want me to name the starting lineups believe me I could.

[huntnfish]

sure, go ahead, and name which ones were 1st Team All SWC, multi year all conference, led the SWC conference in tackles- b/c that is what you are up against in Swann, Bordano, and Viloria

...and you still have not admitted the flaw in "your having to play pro ball logic" which would knock out the SWC's all time winingest % QB in McIllhenny from you all time great team

...keep dodging and talking, b/c the more you do, the bigger the hole you dig

[Stallion]

Each and every one of these guys played at least part of their careers at LB and would have started over those guys: Gary Moten, Pete Collins(freshman All-American who would have been one of the All-Time SMU greats if he had died), Eric Ferguson, Clarence McDade, Anthony Beverley, T.D. Briggs, Kit Case-that's off the top of my head-I'm sure there were more. Now SMU often played a 5-2 Defense back then and their DEs were often used as OLBs-you can add Byron Hunt, Cornelius Dozier, Russ Washington and Dwayne Anderson to the list who would start at LB over those guys. I'm sure Bill Keilly made 180 tackles in one year-those are stats that mean squat except for sportwriter. Many post DP LBs who have earned All-conference recognition got it because their teams were so bad that they piled up huge numbers.

[OldPony]

Does Moten's pro "career" count? I think he only played in 7 games but I could be wrong. Other than the tandem of Griffin-Stewart, I really don't remember any SMU linebackers better than Bordano. I think Moten just looked better with a line that could keep guards off of him. Stallion- He has asked you for names of outstanding linebackers which I can't come up with. Can you? I don't think so if pro career is your standard. There are many great Mustangs who didn't play pro or had undistnguished careers though. Does Chuck Hixon ring a bell?

[OldPony]

I agree with Beverly. The rest were in the same ctegory with the 3 post DP guys. Recognition ususally goes to the best teams Stallion not the guy surrounded by no one. Look at OU and TU linebackers.

[huntnfish]

so which ones were 1st Team All SWC & led the league in tackles- there were 3 guys who were all conference in the 1980s: Ferguson, Moten and Beverley- none led the league in tackles

so my point is Swann, Bordano, and Viloria could have played alongside these guys at some point during the 1980's

...still waiting for your answer on the complications the McIllhenny question poses for you- I am sure I will not get an answer b/c it dispells your "pro" theory as Old Pony has just mentioned

the real stat to look at is the number of tackles behind the line of scrimmage along with total tackles

[jtstang]

Putt Choate. Great name too.

[Stallion]

add Wes Hopkins, Ricky Bolden, Fred Benners, Arthur Whittington, Gerald Mann, Don Meredith, Bobby Wilson, [deleted] Hightower Ray Schonke to the list of great MUSTANGS. What is that about 40 SMU greats who were better than ANY player since the DP. Some of you may not realize this but SMU used to have All-Americans who were as good as anyone in the country.

[SoCal_Pony]

Huntnfish,

Which players post-DP do you feel could have started for our teams in the ‘80’s, regardless of position?