NCAA Levels Another 'Death Penalty', But Not Like You Think!

[jtstang]

Somebody else with a better memory can help me out here, but my recollection is he was bitter about his treatment, playing time, etc. I don't think he'd been cut off of his payments, but I could be wrong.

[PlanoStang]

I'm not sure I've heard anyone suggest SMU shouldnt have gotten appropriate and severe punishment. Severe crimes should get severe punishment. Thing is you cant have a penalty that only one situation receives in 20 years, despite others having qualified for it in meantime. If the Death Penalty is never going to be used again, it should have never been used in the first place. That smacks of example setting. Now if they use the DP for other serious offenses, which everyone knows there are, then fine, SMU deserved what it got.

Truth is misery loves company and the stigma probably wont ever diminish much until someone else in D-1 gets the DP. Gosh, what idiot at the NCAA thinks MacMurry is masterminding schemes to win in D-3 while nothing DP worthy is going on in the SEC.

Well I disagree, because SMU deserved what it got already. Of course it was to set an example, that's what is was supposed to do.

I think the truth of the matter is no other "deserving" program has had the same egregious facts supporting the imposition of the death penalty that the '80s Mustangs did. Can you point to one other program where there has been actual, proven, active participation in the violations by the administration of the school, during a period of existing probation, like there was in our case? If you can, then the penalty arguably should have been imposed based on precedent, and you've got a point. If not, there's nothing to argue about.

I know I'd vote for A$M getting the DP after getting caught a couple of times after we got executed. Dickerson allegedly got a car from them before he signed with us a few days later which he didn't, and couldn't give back.

I think they have been on probation about the same number of times as us for football. Any EXAMPLE set has quickly been replaced by the NCAA (basically run by the college presidents) shying away from the lawsuits (ask Stallion) from the violating schools that if lost would turn multi-million dollar stadiums into virtual useless craters around some land.
We were renting Texas Stadium for games at the time of the DP.

I DON'T EVEN THINK THE ADMINISTRATION OF A SCHOOL HAS TO BE INVOLVED IN ORDER TO RECEIVE THE DP!!!!! Just ask someone named
Blount, and a governor named Clements. You want to cross the gov.?

[Stallion]

Clements was the Chairman of The Board of Govenors at the time. The second most powerful leader of the university was probably Edwin Cox a former Chairman of the Board of Govenors. It doesn't get any more open-and-shut as that. SMU paid for placing some very stupid people in control of the university.

[EastStang]

When there is no leadership in any institution motivated individuals can and do seize it, with or without credential. At that time Zumberge and then Tate were at the helm. Interim President Tate knew these guys and assumed wrongly that they were benign, and never watched the store. The Trustees met infrequently, and didn't audit this. As I said, it was akin to a hostile takeover for which the University did pay a huge price. Now, as for St. Bonny. They lost a few scholarships, the President and coach were fired. They forfeited several games were disqualified from postseason competition for one year. That was it. Here is the summary:
"The institution failed to fulfill its conditions and obligations of membership and permitted a student-athlete to practice, compete and receive athletically related financial aid while ineligible. The institution also provided the same student-athlete an extra benefit when it changed an incomplete grade for the student-athlete to a withdrawal. The institution failed to demonstrate institutional control of its men's basketball program. The former president violated the principles of ethical conduct and he failed to exercise proper control resulting in lack of institutional control. "

[jtstang]

Now, as for St. Bonny. They lost a few scholarships, the President and coach were fired. They forfeited several games were disqualified from postseason competition for one year. That was it. Here is the summary:
"The institution failed to fulfill its conditions and obligations of membership and permitted a student-athlete to practice, compete and receive athletically related financial aid while ineligible. The institution also provided the same student-athlete an extra benefit when it changed an incomplete grade for the student-athlete to a withdrawal. The institution failed to demonstrate institutional control of its men's basketball program. The former president violated the principles of ethical conduct and he failed to exercise proper control resulting in lack of institutional control. "

I guess the best distinguishing characteristic is the scope of the scandal. When you compare one athlete to a payroll full of athletes, SMU's case is still worse, in my opinion. But you make a good point about the administration involvement.

[Stallion]

note that the President of St Bonaventure was fired. NCAA calls that Institutional Control especially when its one of the first violations. Not really comparable to SMU's situation which I'm told was an organized payroll which existed over almost a decade.

[EastStang]

And the Board of Governors was disbanded. This goes back to the original selective enforcement premise that Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, Georgia, A&M, Tennessee, Kentucky, etc. should have had at least one death penalty candidate among them because they have been unapologetically cheating for years.

[jtstang]

This goes back to the original selective enforcement premise that Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, Georgia, A&M, Tennessee, Kentucky, etc. should have had at least one death penalty candidate among them because they have been unapologetically cheating for years.

Again, this may or may not be evidence of selective enforcement of the rule, but it is not evidence that SMU did not get a deserved punishment.

[Stallion]

SMU got rid of its Board Of Govenors but only after probations circa 1975, 1980, 1982, and 1986-come on let's tell the whole story.

[MrMustang1965]

Clements was the Chairman of The Board of Govenors at the time. The second most powerful leader of the university was probably Edwin Cox a former Chairman of the Board of Govenors. It doesn't get any more open-and-shut as that. SMU paid for placing some very stupid people in control of the university.

Gov. Bill Clements = stupid. Yep. No argument here on that point. I hope all of you GOP supporters remember which party ol' Bill is a member of.

[PlanoStang]

note that the President of St Bonaventure was fired. NCAA calls that Institutional Control especially when its one of the first violations. Not really comparable to SMU's situation which I'm told was an organized payroll which existed over almost a decade.

I would venture to speculate that most SEC schools, and a lot of the old SWC schools have had underground triple secret payrolls at least since UT's rise in the early 60s.

[EastStang]

Anybody ever read "Meat on the Hoof" about life on St. Darryl's Longhorns if your name was not Streeter. Cheating and SWC football have been around for as long as I can remember. Did we get what we deserved, absolutely, and I have always maintained that!!! Are there other candidates who deserve the same fate and have been getting and keep getting a pass from the two faced cretins at the NCAA absolutely. By the way did you notice that Baylor's interim President is the lawyer who represented them in front of the NCAA after the Dodson/Bliss debacle. There is another school that was death penalty eligible since the Bliss violations occurred while they were on probation for NCAA tennis violations. My current favorite for a Division 1 DP is Fresno State. They are a mid-major. They were on probation for the myriad of Tarkanian sins and now have committed a bunch of new basketball violations in both men's and women's. bball. I am sure the NCAA has been pining to slam them for hiring Tark the Shark in the first place.

[ponyte]

I am meat on the hoof. I was a walk-on that earned a scholarship. I am now facing a shoulder replacement and two knee replacements. Every second of life is a painful reminder that I played with the best and against the best in the country. My wife doesn't understand (I met her after my playing days) why pain is a badge of honor. My mother curses the day I played a single second of football. And despite pain and misery, I relish every second I played at SMU. If I could put on the white helmet with the red Mustang on it today, I would. Football, for the vast majority of Mustangs it is more than a paycheck. It is a pride and love that transcends logic. It is a life that many former players, to their glory years, relish and fondly remember (I am a second generation SMU football player that has frequent contact with former facemaskless SMU players). And it is not whether one has a winning season or not. We all have our scares from football. My scares are proudly carried.

There are many proud Mustangs in the world. Many fans and players relish the glory days of the Pony Express and beyond. Those days have passed and so has the DP. I am one that remembers fondly the glory years. However, more importantly, is the goal at hand. That goal is to return SMU football to a respectable and competitive status. Put the DP years behind us. I could care less that the NCAA enforces its DP rule selectively. We will not face that threat again. It is time to move on. Mr. Mustang, I can assure you that there were plenty of fine Texas Democrats involved in supplying players with income. It wasn't a political issue, it was a winning issue. And it is behind us and it is time to move on.

The UTs of the world will never face the DP. Shot, U of Ark has more violations in the last 5 years with nothing but a healthy wink from the NCAA. That is not our issue. Our issue is our team. We seem to be discussing the talent we have (as opposed to the lack of talent in key position in the past). This is a great improvement. We seem to complain about certain figures (name the villain...Copeland, Bennett, Turner, etc…) but the fact is we have a wonderful stadium, we have upgraded our conference and we have a team that seems to be steadily improving. For the first time in decades, I am looking forward to our season. Sure, we may very well not have a winning record but we are playing good teams with good athletes. We are improving and that is the key. Forget that the NCAA that will never enforce any rule equitably. We have no control or influence over the NCAA. We can only improve our own program. Those on this board are the key players…loyal supporters (and I have met many of you) and a core component that is the key to future success. Forget the past and ignore the NCAA and focus on our future and our return to success.

Go Stangs.

[ponyte]

It seems I have two post for the price of one.

[PK]

Nice post ponyte. Thanks for enduring the pain...for us.