Could we be left out of Division 4 Football?

[East Coast Mustang]

Time to get serious, and fast. We have to make up for 20+ years of procrastination at the highest administrative levels of SMU

Here's the thing: do Colorado politicians let CSU get left in the dust? What about NC legislators with ECU, Florida pols with USF and UCF, CA legislators with SDSU, Fresno, etc., and even TX legislators with Houston? UH is investing a lot of cash into their new stadium- and they didn't do it to play the equivalent of D3 football today. A lot of public universities would stand to lose a lot of cash if such a split were to occur and "D4" schools didn't play teams in the American, CUSA, MWC, etc.

Hopefully Dan Branch gets elected AG here and would be willing to go to bat for us- he's an SMU Law alum, I believe.

[EastStang]

Let's be clear. The only thing the Government will do is ensure that it gets any tax revenue from the profits of this enterprise. What do these schools do if for example the NCAA says, that's fine, do what you want, but your teams can't participate in March Madness. Think about that one. The BE teams and AAC teams and MWC teams all put multiple teams in the NCAA tournament and those are chips. Stanford wants to win every Olympic Sport now they can't. Suddenly schools like Wake Forest, KU, WVU, Pitt, Louisville, Duke, UNC that get lots of NCAA tourney credits suddenly begin to blink. After all, they suck at football and while they like those checks, they forged their brands in hoops. Again, the Big XII is the most likely conference to be cannibalized by the other conferences (PAC would want UT and OU and nothing west of that), and suddenly its members could be the dinner instead of the predator.

[that's great raplh]

Dodd is awful

[Boston Pony]

Title IX will make paying football without paying all other student athletes impossible so now you are talking about fewer schools being able to make it, so now you are looking at 20 or so schools. Why not then starting a minor league NFL based in college towns?

[Mexmustang]

Well, I still think with the Big 12 TV contracts in place the ACC is far more vulnerable than the Big 12. The ACC has a number of potential "left outs"---Wake, Virginia, Miami, the Big 12 maybe none? The Big 12 would rather capture the East teams than join teams from the West in my opinion

Regardless, SMU needs to understand the next couple of years will be our last chance. And get prepared.

I am not sure that basketball and the Tournament could hold these teams, nor could the Tournament do without them. I could see an NCAA in charge of everything but football.

I guess no one sees it my way, but a simple answer to preserve the number of teams actually playing competitive football would be for a 5% (for example) tax paid into a pool on all TV rights and Bowl revenue available to all D-1 football teams to make some form of payment to its football and basketball players.

[Stallion]

The ACC copied the Big 12 assignment of rights contract. They ain't going anywhere

[East Coast Mustang]

Also, the ACC's is through 2026 or something. I believe the Big 12's grant of rights is up in 2018. That's when I expect the Pac-12 to make their next call to Texas and OU

[East Coast Mustang]

/

Let's be clear. The only thing the Government will do is ensure that it gets any tax revenue from the profits of this enterprise. What do these schools do if for example the NCAA says, that's fine, do what you want, but your teams can't participate in March Madness. Think about that one. The BE teams and AAC teams and MWC teams all put multiple teams in the NCAA tournament and those are chips. Stanford wants to win every Olympic Sport now they can't. Suddenly schools like Wake Forest, KU, WVU, Pitt, Louisville, Duke, UNC that get lots of NCAA tourney credits suddenly begin to blink. After all, they suck at football and while they like those checks, they forged their brands in hoops. Again, the Big XII is the most likely conference to be cannibalized by the other conferences (PAC would want UT and OU and nothing west of that), and suddenly its members could be the dinner instead of the predator.

Dont forget how much sway state pols have in this, though. Remember the Virginia governor getting Va Tech into the ACC over Syracuse in 2003?

[stc9]

Title IX will make paying football without paying all other student athletes impossible so now you are talking about fewer schools being able to make it, so now you are looking at 20 or so schools. Why not then starting a minor league NFL based in college towns?

This is what I have been wondering about. If male athletes get paid and female athletes don't, then all hell is going to break loose. So do equal numbers of women need to get paid or equal number of teams. For example, with walk-ons a large state school could have 125 players on their rosters. Let's say the players get $500 per month. That is $62.5k p/month or $562.5k annually (9 month payroll). That is just for football. With title IX that could be an additional $1.1 million per year for athletic department budgets. I know there are accounting games in Athletic departments, but USA Today reports that only 23 are profitable (link below). What is to stop UT from becoming the NY Yankees and buying all of the talent?

I used a notional $500 per month, but the way this is being projected it is based upon the full cost of going to the school. It is hypothetically more expensive to live in Ann Arbor than it is to live in Norman, OK. So if a player decides to go to Michigan does he/she get $750 rather than the $500 for going to OU? Who decides what the fair amount is? I know the schools all tell students for financial planning purposes, but who says they won't start fudging that number?

There has been a lot of talk in this thread about breaking up either the big 12 or the ACC to make 4 super conferences for this division. Need a lawyer's opinion here - what about the GORs the member schools have signed? Those are the only two conferences that have signed GORs. Especially if a school like WF or NCST doesn't get invited to the next level. Do they keep FSU's TV rights because they stayed in the ACC that has been broken apart?

NEED A CPAs OPINION: The Power conferences are already getting heat that they are a for profit business (one of the things the O'Banion (sp?) lawsuit is about). Being a member of the NCAA at least provides cover as a not for profit. If they leave the NCAA are these athletic departments now fair game for the IRS?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/co ... es/2142443

[jpe747]

What Pony Snob wrote is the best thing we can do. WIN GAMES! That is about the only arrow in our quiver. We have come a long way from the worst team in football. Now we have to become the team everyone wants to watch. WIN WIN WIN.

[ponyinNC]

Please stop with the 4 super conference garbage. It's called division 4 because it adds another division from D1-D3. There will be 5 conferences within the super division. Not 4.

What we need to hope for is that the MWC and AAC make it in too. But given the commissioners' statements at media days for SEC. B12 and ACC, that doesn't seem likely.

[ponyboy]

What Pony Snob wrote is the best thing we can do. WIN GAMES! That is about the only arrow in our quiver. We have come a long way from the worst team in football. Now we have to become the team everyone wants to watch. WIN WIN WIN.

Right. And promote the product incessantly and inventively

[Mexmustang]

You are probably right.

But, the ACC only has a three year commitment from TV and its members. Four super conferences will all go to 16 teams it is an easy scenario to think the low man on the totem pole will fall apart as its top football schools are picked off to fill the vacancies to makeup four 16 member conferences.

If you are right, it is better for SMU. If the ACC holds then we might be in consideration to fill the spots if we are prepared.

But, basketball will not be important enough to secure a Wake Forest or a Virginia or Duke in a Super Football Conference if the NCAA retains control of all sports save for football. That would be the end of the ACC. The big schools would have their D4 football and still participate in March Madness.

I would also argue that the ACC is very short sighted to trash the AAC. Its best hope for survival would be to include the AAC, ensuring another conference was at the bottom of the pecking order.

[Dukie]

The ACC has a number of potential "left outs"---Wake, Virginia, Miami, the Big 12 maybe none?

You think the University of Virginia is more likely to be excluded from "Division 4" than any or all of Baylor, Iowa State, West Virginia, TCU, Texas Tech, Kansas, and Kansas State? That is not credible.

[East Coast Mustang]

Nobody in a current power five conference will be left out, in my opinion.