How far have we come?

[couch 'em]

I was thinking an interesting comparison could be made between the Bennett 6-6 year and any given June year.

Bennett was very close to going 7-5, and even at 6-6 if he had June's political sway in Hawaii or elsewhere we would have gone bowling. This was Bennett's one-year zenith while June has trucked along for 4 years straight, but many feel, as I do, that we haven't really improved much in those 4 years. You could say it is a 4-year zenith.

How do they compare?

Because it is quick, I picked Sagrin ratings as a means to compare.

2012 (June 6-6) vs 2006 ( Bennett 6-6)

2006 rating at end of year: 62.78
2012 rating at end of year: 72.94

That's a big difference that implies the 2012 team is far better than 2006. But ratings take in to account your opponent, and scheduling makes a big difference.

Opponent average rating:
2006: 62.499
2012: 72.94

Much harder schedule in 2012. But let's look deeper. What is driving this rating?

Highest 3 ratings on the schedule that year:
2006: Tech 78, UH 73.11, Tulsa 69.37
2012: Aggy 93.31, Baylor 82.64, TCU 78.39.

So our OOC schedule is really boosting our average opponent rating in 2012. But who we lost to doesn't say much. We need to know who we actually beat to get a fair comparison, because who we beat those two years are much more comparable than who we lost to.

Average rating of opponents we beat:
2006: 58.85
2012: 59.278

What does this mean? It appears that although the overall schedule is tougher for June, we have about the same quality of wins. To me, both teams have 6 wins vs. about the same level of competition. That means we haven't come very far?

[East Coast Mustang]

Say what you want about Bennett, but he couldnt get over the hump and get us into bowl games. JJ has done it four straight seasons.

Also we've gone from CUSA to the AAC since JJ got here. It's not a meteoric rise, but it's certainly a lot better than where we could be today. JJ raised the profile and perception of our program, and that had a whole lot to do with our being promoted to the American

[Rebel10]

Say what you want about Bennett, but he couldnt get over the hump and get us into bowl games. JJ has done it four straight seasons.

Also we've gone from CUSA to the AAC since JJ got here. It's not a meteoric rise, but it's certainly a lot better than where we could be today. JJ raised the profile and perception of our program, and that had a whole lot to do with our being promoted to the American

At the time The Big East was a solid step up. Now after the first week I doubt any team we play is significantly better than the current CUSA teams. And after this year Louisville and Rutgers are gone. Just sayin.

[Rebel10]

I was thinking an interesting comparison could be made between the Bennett 6-6 year and any given June year.

Bennett was very close to going 7-5, and even at 6-6 if he had June's political sway in Hawaii or elsewhere we would have gone bowling. This was Bennett's one-year zenith while June has trucked along for 4 years straight, but many feel, as I do, that we haven't really improved much in those 4 years. You could say it is a 4-year zenith.

How do they compare?

Because it is quick, I picked Sagrin ratings as a means to compare.

2012 (June 6-6) vs 2006 ( Bennett 6-6)

2006 rating at end of year: 62.78
2012 rating at end of year: 72.94

That's a big difference that implies the 2012 team is far better than 2006. But ratings take in to account your opponent, and scheduling makes a big difference.

Opponent average rating:
2006: 62.499
2012: 72.94

Much harder schedule in 2012. But let's look deeper. What is driving this rating?

Highest 3 ratings on the schedule that year:
2006: Tech 78, UH 73.11, Tulsa 69.37
2012: Aggy 93.31, Baylor 82.64, TCU 78.39.

So our OOC schedule is really boosting our average opponent rating in 2012. But who we lost to doesn't say much. We need to know who we actually beat to get a fair comparison, because who we beat those two years are much more comparable than who we lost to.

Average rating of opponents we beat:
2006: 58.85
2012: 59.278

What does this mean? It appears that although the overall schedule is tougher for June, we have about the same quality of wins. To me, both teams have 6 wins vs. about the same level of competition. That means we haven't come very far?

Good analysis.

[SoCal_Pony]

I think a more revealing analysis is what % of players JJ has recruited post ASU/Klemm debacle with BCS offers vs. PB during his career at SMU.

I suspect PB recruited a higher %.

JJ may be the better coach, but we also paid him 4x more than PB.

[Barksdale Pony]

This is a results oriented business and if I am going to jump JJ's sh*t for losing then I feel that I have to give credit where it is earned. Only once when PB was here did we sniff a bowl and we went to Rice and laid an egg. JJ has taken us to four straight bowls and won three of those. JJ has brought us from the dead but that does not mean he is the man to take us to the next level. This is what all the JJ lovers on this board seem to fail to grasp. We can acknowledge what JJ has done while at the same time understanding that we need new leadership to take the next step. These feelings are not mutually exclusive JJ lovers. It's not all or nothing.

[ponyinNC]

I can summarize this pretty easily for you guys:

JJ saved us from becoming RICE.

JJ cannot help us to become TCU.



THE END.

[PonySnob]

I can summarize this pretty easily for you guys:

JJ saved us from becoming RICE.

JJ cannot help us to become TCU.



THE END.

A+

[mustangxc]

I think couch 'em laid down the facts pretty clearly as to why June Jones does not deserve to be fired. June Jones worst season (following the first year which was an anomally) is better than Phil Bennett's best season at SMU. While we may not be going to top tier bowl games, going bowling is sure better than the alternative. I think the biggest difference between the June Jones supporters and the haters is patience. I am with all the haters in that I want to see us become a fixture in the top 25 and going to BCS bowls. However, I believe I am more reasonable in that I realize it takes time. I am enjoying the journey and sincerely believe tht June Jones will be ready to retire sooner than later. Patience is a virtue that will serve us well in attracting a top notch coach who will see that it is possible to win at SMU and that we have an administration and a fan base committed to winning that is grateful and has reasonable expectations. We were a doormat for 20+ years enjoy being good for a few years and then when June moves on look forward to being great.

[Mustangsabu]

I think couch 'em laid down the facts pretty clearly as to why June Jones does not deserve to be fired. June Jones worst season (following the first year which was an anomally) is better than Phil Bennett's best season at SMU. While we may not be going to top tier bowl games, going bowling is sure better than the alternative. I think the biggest difference between the June Jones supporters and the haters is patience. I am with all the haters in that I want to see us become a fixture in the top 25 and going to BCS bowls. However, I believe I am more reasonable in that I realize it takes time. I am enjoying the journey and sincerely believe tht June Jones will be ready to retire sooner than later. Patience is a virtue that will serve us well in attracting a top notch coach who will see that it is possible to win at SMU and that we have an administration and a fan base committed to winning that is grateful and has reasonable expectations. We were a doormat for 20+ years enjoy being good for a few years and then when June moves on look forward to being great.

Excellent post, IMO. It is a facet of the polarization on this board that some see JJ as "stealing" $2+ million a year for 6 years, and I see (among many problems I have with that mindset) an administration creating a culture of stability. Whoever follows JJ, candidates will be far more interested in the job if they think they will have time to meet their goals. LB is proving to be the best quick fix in college athletics, but that is the exception not the norm. We need to follow JJ with a stable, long term coach. And I think it is only right to credit JJ with stability. 4 bowls in 4 years may not be the BCS standard to which he is apparently being held but it is stability at a level way above what we had before. I loved Bennett, but he had all his eggs in the 2006 basket and didn't quite make it and the cupboard was bare in 2007 and 2008. June took that team, had to field young players, and took it to a Bowl in his second year. I think sometimes people need to be reminded of that. The whiners who say JJ has used Bennett's players as the basis for his success rather than his own need to remember that there is a flip side to that which is that JJ used the players to far greater effect than Phil.

The bottom line is that I believe that by the end of the season we will be looking on 2013 as a success but we have to wait for it a little longer.

[1983 Cotton Bowl]

The 2006 season for me was a roller coaster that ultimately ended in total frustration. And then we experienced an almost unbelievable collapse in 2007 that belied any "progress" we had apparently made under Bennett. The fact that June also went 1-11 in his first season in 2008 tells me that what Bennett built wasn't heading anywhere fast.

Also, let's not forget that the 2006 team did not play TCU and was rather decisively beaten by UNT.

Based on a very limited body of work for evaluation, I think the 2013 version of the Mustangs would have beaten the 2006 version like a drum. Whether that's considered progress, I don't know.

[78pony]

I think couch 'em laid down the facts pretty clearly as to why June Jones does not deserve to be fired. June Jones worst season (following the first year which was an anomally) is better than Phil Bennett's best season at SMU. While we may not be going to top tier bowl games, going bowling is sure better than the alternative. I think the biggest difference between the June Jones supporters and the haters is patience. I am with all the haters in that I want to see us become a fixture in the top 25 and going to BCS bowls. However, I believe I am more reasonable in that I realize it takes time. I am enjoying the journey and sincerely believe tht June Jones will be ready to retire sooner than later. Patience is a virtue that will serve us well in attracting a top notch coach who will see that it is possible to win at SMU and that we have an administration and a fan base committed to winning that is grateful and has reasonable expectations. We were a doormat for 20+ years enjoy being good for a few years and then when June moves on look forward to being great.

Time is a luxury we do not, repeat, do not have. He has had 6 and I would contend that in this amount of time we should be seeing clear and significant upward trending in wins, caliber of recruits, etc. But to the point, to think that we have 4,5,6 years to play around and hopefully find the right magic is naive. If we aren't making big moves right now, I am willing to bet the farm we are left out of the big dance forever.

[Barksdale Pony]

I can summarize this pretty easily for you guys:

JJ saved us from becoming RICE.

JJ cannot help us to become TCU.



THE END.

Perfect!

[East Coast Mustang]

I'm probably one of the biggest JJ supporters on here but I doubt that he can ever get over the next "hump" and win 9-10 games or an AAC title during his tenure here. I said last year after the Tulane debacle that he had plateaued here and looking forward, 7-5 and a bowl appearance is probably the best we can expect.

The grass is always greener on the other side but I'd like to know who the JJ haters would bring in to replace him. I've always advocated for Bobby Petrino because I think he could come here and win 10 games but I doubt RGT or the Board would ever sign off on that. If we're not going to get some renowned Xs and Os guy like JJ or Petrino then you need someone who can kick [deleted] on the recruiting trail and get guys away from Tech, TCU, and Baylor. If you're going to yell and scream and demand June hit the road, please let us know which alternatives you suggest.

Regardless of how the team does this year, I'm eternally grateful to June Jones for saving this program from the abyss and all of you should be as well. If he hadn't come here, we'd be stuck in a conference with Rice and UNT right now while Houston moved up. Think about that.

[Rebel10]

Yes, when June retires we are doomed, doomed, doomed. There is almost no chance that we could ever find a decent coach to come to SMU. Get ready for 1 and 2 win seasons when June retires after next season.