Let's just be clear about one thing

[Mustangsabu]

The players on the field and the sidelines for SMU didn't appear as if from nowhere. They were recruited. By June's staff. Now, I know that rather than support those players we have chosen to lay siege to our HC because those players do not represent the sort of "recruiting" we want to see, so let's just make our positions clear.

June came here thinking that top tier talent was going to knock on his door. This has not been the case. Part of that was that June figured that he would turn the program around, the stadium would fill up and there would be something to sell to the recruits that were banging down said door. This has also not been the case. The program did turn around but the top tier recruits didn't come knocking.

However, if we had a different coach, the top tier talent that was not knocking on the door before, will decide that they would rather come here than the top tier programs they have been offered by, whose doors they probably were knocking on.

I'm not saying it isn't possible. And Klemm is credited with some higher level recruiting, though it is imperative that JJ not be given any credit for hiring Klemm and facilitating that recruiting. I'm just saying that the position of the "Recruiting Lynch Mob" is that another coach will get the players here to take us to the next level. And that is the whole sum total of their argument. But the truth is we have no idea what will happen. They are uncharted waters. We hire a coach who recruits like a maniac and we wait 4-5 years for his team to mature and gel, and discover if a) he can actually coach and b) whether the talent was actually top tier. And it might work out great. Might. But people would much rather that than keep a coach who has proved that he makes players better, has a proven track record, has strong ties to the next level which is at least a carrot to dangle in front of recruits, and who has a system that will level the playing field while the team develops, even if it is only by beating nobodies at home. People pretend that if JJ sees out his contract we will be in no-man's land with the cupboard bare and misery reigning. Where is the actual, tangible evidence of that? A 42-13 loss to ATM and it's Heisman winning QB?

So many people are so sure of their justification and so enamored with their own understanding of college football that they are not even prepared to wait until the end of the season to measure where we are as a program, which is, by the way, the way any program in the country approaches the evaluation of a football program. I don't believe a single HC has been fired yet this season in D1 football. But we should be the first, of course.

But back to the original point. We have an entire roster of players recruited by this staff, enrolled at our university and a large segment of the fanbase apparently wants them to fail so they can fuel the tiki-torches for the posse....

Yeah, I'm not sure Saban could save this program from its own fans.....

[Rebel10]

What about getting mid tier players with BCS offers like USF has done this year?
http://rivals.yahoo.com/usf/football/re ... 14/usf-655

[Mustangsabu]

What about getting mid tier players with BCS offers like USF has done this year?
http://rivals.yahoo.com/usf/football/re ... 14/usf-655

They have shown it's possible, and there is an argument that if they can do it we should be able to also. nothing in that argument says you fire the coach because he doesn't recruit similar ranked players. You fire a coach on performance on the field. We haven't lost enough to fire a coach.

I'd also point out that even in the doldrums where USF are they get 35000 fans at a game and a few years ago it was 50-60000. That's an easier sell.

[ponyboy]

You fire a coach for performance on the field.

Bingo.

[mrydel]

Tell that to Mike Price, George O'Leary, Larry Eustacy, etc.

[Rebel10]

What about getting mid tier players with BCS offers like USF has done this year?
http://rivals.yahoo.com/usf/football/re ... 14/usf-655

They have shown it's possible, and there is an argument that if they can do it we should be able to also. nothing in that argument says you fire the coach because he doesn't recruit similar ranked players. You fire a coach on performance on the field. We haven't lost enough to fire a coach.

I'd also point out that even in the doldrums where USF are they get 35000 fans at a game and a few years ago it was 50-60000. That's an easier sell.

As pointed out in another thread that USF attendance is poor since Holtz's recruiting took the team down. Football attendance is down this year at USF. It is not about attendance but about the staff. We don't even go after mid level recruits with BCS offers. Stop drinking the JJ spin koolaid.

[ponyboy]

You fire a coach for performance on the field.

[Rebel10]

You fire a coach for performance on the field.

Kind of like the NC State coach and the Purdue coach got fired for constantly getting 6-7 win seasons and taking them to mediocre bowls. At some point at least you have to strive to be excellent and not mediocre.

[ponyinNC]

You fire a coach for performance on the field.

Usually, that is correct. But not always. Sometimes it is a stupid action by the coach or the overall trajectory of a program:

Mike Leach. Jim Tressel. Jim Leavett. Bobby Petrino.

Bo Pelini has a great record at NU - just as Mack Brown does at UT - but I think we agree that both guys are likely on their way out because of a perceived lack of upward momentum in the program. Oh and Pelini's rant of course.

I agree that we wait to see how the season plays out before any rash decisions.

[Rebel10]

See Tom O'Brien and Danny Hope.

[TWALV33]

Just curious, if / (let's be honest "when") Mack Brown gets fired. Thoughts of hiring Mack Brown as June's successor?

Could we pull that off even?

Would we want to?

I know the guy can do what June can't...which is recruit....if only we could have a combo of both. June coaching and Mack recruiting.

[ponyboy]

You fire a coach for performance on the field.

Kind of like the NC State coach and the Purdue coach got fired for constantly getting 6-7 win seasons and taking them to mediocre bowls. At some point at least you have to strive to be excellent and not mediocre.

We agree. We agree. We agree. So let's take Abu's advice, take a break from the whining and see what happens this season before deciding if he has to go. He probably does and firing would be last resort and probably unnecessary.

[Lebanese4Life]

What about getting mid tier players with BCS offers like USF has done this year?
http://rivals.yahoo.com/usf/football/re ... 14/usf-655

wow, nice recruiting class. wish ours was half as good

[AusTxPony]

Screw JJ, I just want the team to win and the school to win in all things no matter who is coaching. Go Ponies, beat those Frogs.

[ponynut]

Recruiting would be so much easier if we could put some STUDENTS and FANS in the stadium. All we can sell is education. I have great respect for our players and only wish them the best.