Question: What counts as a "winning team"?

[ponyboy]

So they get their coaches for free too. Cool.

[redpony]

ok - this thread has reached a level of absurdity- we now have a coach working for free and 10 is smaller than 6. wow! this new math just confuses the hell outa me.

[Rebel10]

So they get their coaches for free too. Cool.

What counts as "free?"

[ponyboy]

@redpony, SMU has gotten more than their money's worth of June Sheldon Jones. He "revived a moribund program," as Dan Wolken said, without a dime coming from SMU's coffers. I don't know what's confusing about that to you.

[couch 'em]

How so? The CoC, not SMU, has paid the guy's salary. It's their money, not SMU's.

Every athletic department takes booster money. Coaches are all bokster paid directly or indirectly in some way.

Furthermore, the CoC was formed before June was on the table. It isnt special for him.

You accuse me of somehow twisting raw statistical data to make June look bad, but then you go through out this silly premise.

[couch 'em]

@redpony, SMU has gotten more than their money's worth of June Sheldon Jones. He "revived a moribund program," as Dan Wolken said, without a dime coming from SMU's coffers. I don't know what's confusing about that to you.

Which is irrelevant to the discussiin of whether his record vs winning teams is "good".

[redpony]

pb- I suspect that the CofC gives the money to SMU so that they can get their tax deduction. The school then pays the coach with that money. So, in actuality, SMU IS paying the coach.

[redpony]

pb- I suspect that the CofC gives the money to SMU so that they can get their tax deduction. The school then pays the coach with that money. So, in actuality, SMU IS paying the coach.

[ponyboy]

So if I hand you a $100 bill to pay for your dinner and you then hand that to the waiter, did you pay for dinner?

[redpony]

by your definition that 10 is less than 6 - yes!
And I guess it would depend upon your definition of 'pay'.

[Rebel10]

pb- I suspect that the CofC gives the money to SMU so that they can get their tax deduction. The school then pays the coach with that money. So, in actuality, SMU IS paying the coach.

One example would be the Arkansas Razorback booster club. They give the money to the booster club and they pay the coach through the school. Same with the CoC/Mustang Club.

[Rebel10]

So if I hand you a $100 bill to pay for your dinner and you then hand that to the waiter, did you pay for dinner?

What counts as "pay?"

[ponyboy]

The CoC has paid every penny of June Jones' salary. This has come out of their own pockets. SMU has not spent a dime on the man's salary. It's irrelevant that other schools might do it too.

Why even bring this up? Because I'm also sick of hearing many posters say ad nauseum that June's stealing SMU's money.

[Rebel10]

I am sorry that you are sick of people saying that June is stealing money. I personally have never said that he was stealing money. Stealing money would be sicking to hear over and over again. Since you are sick of people saying he is stealing money this thread should help you out.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=67171&p=950345&hilit=stealin+money#p950345

[Mustangs_Maroons]

Where we disagree (among many other things) is that 6-31, or 8-29 or 7-30 are abysmal records, no matter how you spin it, slice it.

Sure sounds bad. Unfortunately, again, it's not that easy without something to compare to.

1) I'm still not certain what record someone could reasonably expect from a rebuilding non-P5 team who loaded up the likes on Tech, TCU, and A&M, most of which teams were ranked when we played them, often at their house.

2) "Teams with winning records" includes not just those who ended up 7-6 but also 8-5, 9-4, 10-3, 11-2, 12-1, 13-0. No team who averaged 5 wins and 6 losses over the last six seasons would win even a third of those. No team.

What we need is a comparison with a mid-level team who plays mid to uppper level P5 teams out of conference and averaged mid 80's Sagarin over a six year period. What was their record against teams with winning records? I don't have the time for an analysis as my two sick days are up and I have to get back to work.

If you don't understand the problem in making a judgement on this, I don't know how to help you.

Well put. I fear that far too many people on this board do not understand the limitations of these stats. They do however know that they sound bad, and the war on JJ needs ammunition

You sound ike that remedial H.S. student that can't get into the advanced/honors level classes and has to try to convince his parents that his C-average grades are good because he is in line with the other remedial students. We are into year 6 of Jones' tenure, and we should expect to be more competitive, and we should also expect to be improving, which we're not. Congratulations on your average expectations for a HC coach that gets paid more than what the Rice, Tulane and UNT coach got paid combined. I don't care if it was paid by the COC, it is still his salary, and he needs to demonstrate a level of effort that is commensurate with that salary. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Ever hear of that concept? He doesn't get a free pass on being evaluated or critiqued just becuase it was paid by the COC.

You try to overcompensate by thinking you are so smart. I don't need to run a regression to tell you that this team is on the decline, or that our recruiting is getting worse, that our players are poorly prepared, the growing disparity in talent between us and the teams in the P5 conference. Your beloved sagarins ratings right now has us at 104. Congratulations.