Question about Doh and His Record

[redpony]

The bottom line of this hire was never results, just rehab.

Ponydoh- with all due respect I cannot imagine a D1 university hiring a coach to just do 'rehab'. They hire coaches to a) continue to build and enhance an already successful program or b) to turn around a program in a few short years (not 5-6 years). I am pleased that we might have some talent coming in next year but my biggest concern is that this fraud of a coach is allowd to come back and continue his losing ways. I am sure that I am not alone when I say that the university is losing much more in revenue and contributions by keeping him than they would if they just got rid of him.

GO PONIES!!!

[PonyDoh]

I'm not big on buying out guys w/only a year remaining, as its wasted cash that could be used elsewhere. That's not saying I want to see Doh remain, but this program is bleeding, what's another year.

Then aren't we in a situation where you have to extend him so he can recruit? Very few coaches, if any, coach in the last year of their contract.

I don't think he gets extended (nor should he), or we'll have booster armageddon, but how does he recruit in the last year of his contract?

Doh had a 5 year deal w/built in garbage incentives that automatically extended him. Now, I haven't done the research, but different folks say different things about the contracts actual length. Originally, I thought it went from 5 to 7 years, which is scary. At some point, everyone starting talking like it was just 6, so color me confused.

Also, you can easily extend Doh, if need be, for no additional money and no buy-out. Lots of coaches on the hot seat get mock extensions that don't really amount to the paper they are put on.

[redpony]

However, the way doh screwed us on his initial contract I would not give him an extra day beyond it.
I also blame Orsini for costing this university millions for his stupidity in negotiating that agreement. Totally unbelievable.

GO PONIES!!!

[friarwolf]

His first year, he had the team playing to its ability until they faced Oklahoma with the Griffin boys. We got killed - rightfully so, and Doh freaked followed by the ridiculous "toughening up" sessions and the totally uncalled for kicking of Brian Epps off the team several games later. He totally sucked the life out of that team which should have won at least won 4 more games in conference followed by what should have been a team that made it to the semi-finals. I bet in a quiet moment, Doh would probably acknowledge that he screwed that first team up and that he probably still hasn't seen a 3 point shooter as good as Epps..................

[PonyDoh]

The bottom line of this hire was never results, just rehab.

Ponydoh- with all due respect I cannot imagine a D1 university hiring a coach to just do 'rehab'. They hire coaches to a) continue to build and enhance an already successful program or b) to turn around a program in a few short years (not 5-6 years). I am pleased that we might have some talent coming in next year but my biggest concern is that this fraud of a coach is allowd to come back and continue his losing ways. I am sure that I am not alone when I say that the university is losing much more in revenue and contributions by keeping him than they would if they just got rid of him.

GO PONIES!!!

I don't think you have any idea how poorly this position was regarded locally, regionally, and nationally, but especially in industry & grassroots circles. Coaches didn't want the job. Look at our two finalists.

We self-reported Tubbs to the NCAA so we could grab a more profile white guy. We weren't operating on an even playing field, which sucks for football, but destroys basketball. Analyze the recruiting pool in each sport . Very different etc. Also, hoops isn't sport it's culture. So, when you get a rep for being racist, it more than stings. Essentially, industry perception was that we lynched Tubbs on the Hilltop.

To this day, I have AAU & barbershop types that basically say SMU 'literally' killed Tubbs. That he lost his will to live after he was scape-goated. The fact that we thought we could ever fire a black hoops coach at SMU, after 2 years, is beyond ridiculous. We completely deserved the hoops desert we've had over the past 5.

How much 'if Jerryl sasser had gone to Texas, he'd have gone league' bs do you think I got at AAU tourneys? Older salty types still [deleted] & moan over LJ & Jason Sasser etc. Q is in the NBA despite SMU holding him back etc.

In the irony department, Shawn Williams Dad and crew were some of the one's dogging the school/program, on every street corner, post Tubbs. It took some time, but it's coming full circle now. This was never perceived as 3 year rebuild in the hoops community, ever. Even Doh said 5, and he had no idea the extent of the damage. Orsini ignored it. I understand the booster community has different expectations, and I'm sick of waiting too, but this really hasn't been about wins and losses or Xs and Os. We were incredibly damaged, and it takes time to heal, not just a hire.

[PonyDoh]

His first year, he had the team playing to its ability until they faced Oklahoma with the Griffin boys. We got killed - rightfully so, and Doh freaked followed by the ridiculous "toughening up" sessions and the totally uncalled for kicking of Brian Epps off the team several games later. He totally sucked the life out of that team which should have won at least won 4 more games in conference followed by what should have been a team that made it to the semi-finals. I bet in a quiet moment, Doh would probably acknowledge that he screwed that first team up and that he probably still hasn't seen a 3 point shooter as good as Epps..................

Epps was a thug, his police blotter backs it up, and has been kicked off every team he's pretty much ever been on. Loved his touch, but he was an awful campus fit from Day 1, much like that cancer, Bennie Rhodes. IMO, that team didn't come close to having semi-final talent, and was exposed by the first 'good' team they faced. They definitely win a few more games w/Epps, though. Also, the 'toughening up' sessions were totally ridiculous and unnecessary.

[RGV Pony]

whatever happened to Morris? Went to a juco in Oregon or something, right?

[SoCal_Pony]

We've completely performed to our talent level, not above or below really.

Pony Doh,

I will buy into your argument that Doh's initial class was nowhere near Top 25, but I cannot buy into this statement.

Over the past 4 years, SMU's RPI has averaged 264.

Here is a summary of SMU's RPI ranking by year along with 3 schools which had higher RPI rankings that particular year.

2011 Season - RPI 305. Schools with higher rankings: Tenn-Martin, Utah Valley, MD Eastern Shore.

2010 Season - RPI 208. Schools with higher rankings: Canisius, Lipscomb, Northern Ariziona.

2009 Season - RPI 275. Schools with higher rankings: Campell, St Peter's, Bethune Cookman.

2008 Season - RPI 266. Schools with higher rankings: Liberty, Stetson, Binghamton.

Are you going to tell us that Doh has recruited on average the 264th best class each year over the past 4 years, and that we should therefore expect these results? That in itself is grounds for dismissal.

Just curious, how many teams listed above had players with offers from Oklahoma, Louisville, or Kentucky?

[LA_Mustang]

I don't think you have any idea how poorly this position was regarded locally, regionally, and nationally, but especially in industry & grassroots circles. Coaches didn't want the job. Look at our two finalists.

We self-reported Tubbs to the NCAA so we could grab a more profile white guy. We weren't operating on an even playing field, which sucks for football, but destroys basketball. Analyze the recruiting pool in each sport . Very different etc. Also, hoops isn't sport it's culture. So, when you get a rep for being racist, it more than stings. Essentially, industry perception was that we lynched Tubbs on the Hilltop.

To this day, I have AAU & barbershop types that basically say SMU 'literally' killed Tubbs. That he lost his will to live after he was scape-goated. The fact that we thought we could ever fire a black hoops coach at SMU, after 2 years, is beyond ridiculous. We completely deserved the hoops desert we've had over the past 5.

How much 'if Jerryl sasser had gone to Texas, he'd have gone league' bs do you think I got at AAU tourneys? Older salty types still [deleted] & moan over LJ & Jason Sasser etc. Q is in the NBA despite SMU holding him back etc.

In the irony department, Shawn Williams Dad and crew were some of the one's dogging the school/program, on every street corner, post Tubbs. It took some time, but it's coming full circle now. This was never perceived as 3 year rebuild in the hoops community, ever. Even Doh said 5, and he had no idea the extent of the damage. Orsini ignored it. I understand the booster community has different expectations, and I'm sick of waiting too, but this really hasn't been about wins and losses or Xs and Os. We were incredibly damaged, and it takes time to heal, not just a hire.

PonyDoh,
Thank you for this post. I'm not gonna pretend that I know and understand all the inter workings of a college program and the AAU circuit but I know the game and love the game.

That said, I thought Dement was a good coach and we were competitive every year under him. I loved the Tubbs hire- I really thought our school had turned the corner by hiring a black head coach with local ties and a coach who knew and loved SMU. Without getting into the argument of Tubbs ability to lead the program, the way he was fired and treated in less than TWO years was beyond embarrassing. I don't blame any of the area coaches, players, parents or fans for shunning SMU over the past five years since that PR nightmare. I know other PF posters during that time (Prof X and Hoop Fan to name a couple) who followed the program closely felt the same way.....we've gotten everything we deserve - complete insignificance in the middle of a basketball hotbed.

I went to almost every home game as a student and alum while living in Dallas during the Dement and Tubbs years. And during my time in LA, I took road trips to Fresno and San Jose when Dement brought the boys to town, but since the Tubbs firing I've only been to a handful of games...none in the past two years. I still give to the Mustang Club and I buy season tickets but I just can't bring myself to go to the games. I will always follow basketball closely.....love the Mavs, go to HS games on occasion, and I watch a ton of college hoops on tv, unfortunately I just don't have a dog in that hunt at this time....and it sucks.

[SMU89]

However, the way doh screwed us on his initial contract I would not give him an extra day beyond it.
I also blame Orsini for costing this university millions for his stupidity in negotiating that agreement. Totally unbelievable.

GO PONIES!!!

Of course if the program progressed faster as you would assume Steve expected, it would have been brilliant.

[RE Tycoon]

How much 'if Jerryl sasser had gone to Texas, he'd have gone league' bs do you think I got at AAU tourneys? Older salty types still [deleted] & moan over LJ & Jason Sasser etc. Q is in the NBA despite SMU holding him back etc.

He did make the "league" and was, against all odds, drafted in the first round (22nd). Not sure if he gets drafted if he goes to Texas, because he is not top billed on that team.

The barbershop has legit complaints, but to say SMU gives no chance for a player to go the NBA is just stupid. Sasser was a first round draft pick, out of poor old SMU and had a guaranteed deal with time to prove he belonged. He couldn't make it and was cut from numerous other teams in far less competitive Euro leagues.

When the 'industry' throws dumb comments around, you need to smack them back with facts and the reality. (This is not a rant against you, just the dumb attitudes out there of these know-it-alls.)

[NickSMU17]

Sasser was too high to make it in the pros....guy was stoned for most SMU games...

[Hoop Fan]

if rehabbing the job was the goal, i can't imagine a worse hire than Doh or worse execution (hiring no local assistants). The rehab-the-job hire would have been Rob Evans. You either had to go that route, or a young dynamic coach would could literally X and O. Doh was the result of Orsini trying to pull a friggin rabbit out of the hat hire. Now i must admit i like the uptick in local recruiting lately though i am not sure what to attribute it to. Maybe Cotton Giles. Although Jalen Jones is not exactly lighting it up at Kimball. Even so, i like taking chances on local kids rather than California kids. Finally.

I'm just disgusted with SMU basketball right now overall. There is no excuse for the pitiful schedule or the team Doh has on the floor at this point in his tenure. I am trying to support the program but finding if very difficult. i want to put stock in the redshirted guys, but i look down the bench and ask myself which guy is the spark here, the leader that the others are going to follow? The Tim Mason/Gerald Lewis. The Stephen Woods. and Yes, the Jeryl Sasser. Say what you want but that guy expected to win every time he walked on the floor starting from the Texas Tech game his freshman year. I'm still not sure the 'turn around guy' for this program is in the fold yet. I sure don't think its Pats with his lack of eligibility. It aint JFrog. Vilde? Maybe. It was just one more inexcusable thing for Doh to lose McCoy, bring in all these freshman, yet none of them are even eligible. We aren't even building for the future right now, total limbo at the moment and everyone in Moody knows it. And after the Ole Miss debacle, you have Doherty spinning the hope of Pats getting eligible in three weeks. Sorry, the season is almost OVER in three weeks. I was watching David Miller the other night courtside. He even looks disgusted. We can only hope. Something has to change at Moody. My suggestion is to hire an Assistant AD in charge of basketball, I mean in total charge. A real bball guy who gets it. Orsini doesn't care about it. What we are doing is NOT working. If you have been to Moody in person this year, you know that. Over and out.

[Used To Be]

Yeah, just wait and see what happens in three weeks, Yeah, just wait until next year. Yeah just wait till the next year after the next year, after the next year............... Heard it all before the past two years.

[mrydel]

Yeah, just wait and see what happens in three weeks, Yeah, just wait until next year. Yeah just wait till the next year after the next year, after the next year............... Heard it all before the past two years.

Apparently you were not listening the 2 years before the last 2 or you would have heard it then also.