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mrydel wrote:Facts show that spending more on education does not improve the system. Just look at the results we have seen as the money spent has increased. Look at private schools showing better results for less cost per child. I would have no problem with spending as much as they wanted if those spending knew how to do so wisely. But to this point it has not proven to be true.

and last time i checked spending a trillion dollars on a plane that had a faulty engine wasn't a good idea either, but one has a MUCH more productive and long term benefit.

go ahead, say it, tell me that we spend too much on education... this state is nearly bottom in HS grad rates and more money is getting cut, explain to me how that situation is going to produce people worthy of being productive people in our workforce, let alone the country's

At your request:

We spend too much on education.

Would not surprise me in the least if EVERY government agency wastes anywhere from 30% to 50% of total spending.

Here in California, our University system is the envy of the world, so clearly California gets it when it comes to education. We have issues just like other states, especially those with high numbers of immigrants, but at its core, this state has the people and know-how to run an education system (although I would argue CA has far too much bureaucracy, same as at the Federal level).

California represents some 12% of the total US population.

Tell me again why this state needs federal oversight in running its education system?

I once sat next to a top administrator in the SF school system on an international flight. He said the amount of rules and regulations that come from the Dept of Education each year was staggering. Once again, someone tell me why the Federal government should tell California how to run an education system?

SoCal_Pony wrote:
Tell me again why this state needs federal oversight in running its education system?

I once sat next to a top administrator in the SF school system on an international flight. He said the amount of rules and regulations that come from the Dept of Education each year was staggering. Once again, someone tell me why the Federal government should tell California how to run an education system?

to me, that is arguably one of the worst things GWB did to this country.

mrydel wrote:Facts show that spending more on education does not improve the system. Just look at the results we have seen as the money spent has increased. Look at private schools showing better results for less cost per child.

That's a faulty conclusion. Compare the profile (economic standing, parental involvement, etc.) of the average private school student vs. the average public school student and see if they are similar. You will always look good when you cherry pick out of any group.

CA Mustang,

At this stage in the game, throwing more $$$ at our education system is not the solution.

Using our monies more efficiently is the solution.

I believe America spends almost twice as much per student (K-12) than Germany does, yet we hardly get twice the results.

SoCal_Pony wrote:CA Mustang,

At this stage in the game, throwing more $$$ at our education system is not the solution.

Using our monies more efficiently is the solution.

I believe America spends almost twice as much per student (K-12) than Germany does, yet we hardly get twice the results.

This is what I am talking about. The amount of money is really no factor. It is efficient use of the money and by doing that the need for money would be less. In Arkansas outside the major metropolitan areas (which is most of the State)there is almost one District Superintendent for each school in the state. And each of them have an Assistant Superintendent, and they oversee the Principal and his Assistant Principal. The top heavy system is such a joke no one will even do anything about it. And when it was tried, the politics of the system beat off the opposition. When we are paying 6 figure salaries to good old boys to be a Superintendent of a school district with a couple of schools it borders on the ridiculous.

Well said - mrydel

mrydel wrote:In Arkansas outside the major metropolitan areas (which is most of the State)there is almost one District Superintendent for each school in the state. And each of them have an Assistant Superintendent, and they oversee the Principal and his Assistant Principal. The top heavy system is such a joke no one will even do anything about it.

That's an administrative issue, not a quality issue. Originally you claimed "Look at private schools showing better results for less cost per child..." This doesn't address that at all.

mrydel wrote:And when it was tried, the politics of the system beat off the opposition. When we are paying 6 figure salaries to good old boys to be a Superintendent of a school district with a couple of schools it borders on the ridiculous.

Politics of the system? In this case, the system is comprised of AR residents! So if more of your fellow residents wanted to keep the current situation, shouldn't your beef be with them rather than condeming public education overall?

mrydel - your problems in AR are 10X worse here in Calif! It's a bureaucracy entrenched & you're dead on. It's nothing more than a sham now days.

CA Mustang wrote:

mrydel wrote:In Arkansas outside the major metropolitan areas (which is most of the State)there is almost one District Superintendent for each school in the state. And each of them have an Assistant Superintendent, and they oversee the Principal and his Assistant Principal. The top heavy system is such a joke no one will even do anything about it.

That's an administrative issue, not a quality issue. Originally you claimed "Look at private schools showing better results for less cost per child..." This doesn't address that at all.

mrydel wrote:And when it was tried, the politics of the system beat off the opposition. When we are paying 6 figure salaries to good old boys to be a Superintendent of a school district with a couple of schools it borders on the ridiculous.

Politics of the system? In this case, the system is comprised of AR residents! So if more of your fellow residents wanted to keep the current situation, shouldn't your beef be with them rather than condeming public education overall?

If you think that the private residents of Arkansas have any type of control over what is going on with the school system then you probably also believe the people of this country have control over the national debt, health care, entitlements, etc. Of course we all have a vote but when the near majority of those voting are on the government teat then the system will never change for the better.

And I was just giving personal examples of the flawed educational system. Why don't you give me some good examples of a successful progressive educational system sustained by government funding. Liberals are great at condemning, blaming, and pointing fingers but they never seem to have any answers other than "it's all your fault".

mrydel wrote:Of course we all have a vote but when the near majority of those voting are on the government teat then the system will never change for the better.

Now that's interesting. "...near majority of those voting are on the government teat..." So you are saying those not on the government teat don't vote? Or that they are just out-numbered?

mrydel wrote:And I was just giving personal examples of the flawed educational system.

You gave one example that would be classified as an administrative or management issue. That’s hardly enough to condemn the public education system.

mrydel wrote:Why don't you give me some good examples of a successful progressive educational system sustained by government funding. Liberals are great at condemning, blaming, and pointing fingers but they never seem to have any answers other than "it's all your fault".

Who is the one here doing the complaining here? Who is the one taking political shots?

An example of a successful educational system sustained by government funding? Okay, here's one for you: http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu

Believe what you want but throwing money to the public education system only fattens the wallets of the administrators. Until there is some accountability and merit systems installed there will be no improvement in our educational system.

And for what it is worth, I am not speaking of the University systems. With our current public school programs in elhi, many of the kids are already lost by the time they get to the higher levels of learning.

If he runs, Gov. Sucks can beat Obama. He would be the signature candidate of the Republicans because the field right now is pretty vanilla.

Mitch McConnell wrote: He would be the signature candidate of the Republicans because the field right now is pretty vanilla.

That's downright pathetic.