Question about Doh and His Record

Used To Be · Post by **Used To Be** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:28 pm

My bad

b_caesar · Post by **b_caesar** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:22 pm

NickSMU17 wrote:Sasser was too high to make it in the pros....guy was stoned for most SMU games...

Just during the games...?

tristatecoog · Post by **tristatecoog** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:52 am

Fan apathy can do in a coach faster than their record.

spacepony · Post by **spacepony** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:14 pm

Redpony get off Orsini's case...there are prestigious backers of the program that are still behind Doh for whatever that means, otherwise Doh would have been gone by now. There are politics involved that make things 'complicated'....unfortunatly with the high level of recruits coming in next year, it will buy him some time.
In addition the recent coaching hires have made SMU more relevant on the court and should have been done earlier of course, but they look better on the floor now, offensively and defensively. They also just have a real 'soft' team on the court without the two big men that should have been eligible and would have been a big help under the basket, defensively.

PoconoPony · Post by **PoconoPony** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:03 pm

I do not think you can make any case for teams at SMU under Doh playing above their talent level. If you consider all the positive spin and hype coming from Doh when kids were signed you can only conclude that his teams are performing far below their talent level based on his assessment of talent. If you believe his spin and talent assessment, then Doh and staff have failed to coach the kids up to their talent level for what ever reasons. In reality, Doh's recruiting has been poor, the talent level is performing at it's proper low level, Doh has failed to coach the kids up and you must question his ability to recruit or assess talent.

angryfan04 · Post by **angryfan04** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:56 pm

Considering doh's background (played for Dean Smith at UNC & coached at KU), he should be totally embarrased at what he has done at SMU. He still trying to figure out a system and a method. I'm sure he has worked hard at it - but this guy is not a college coach.

spacepony · Post by **spacepony** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:31 pm

Poconopony you are off base this time..these really are good recruits.....according to other National Scouting sources, not just Doh. These kids are as a total group, game changers...now its up to Doh and his assistants to make them a cohesive team. Will they?.....We will have to see.
'Cotton' Giles was THE piped piper who is making it happen....the real bad [deleted] playa's are on notice.
I am not a fan of what Doh has accomplished either BTW

PonyDoh · Post by **PonyDoh** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:51 am

spacepony wrote:Redpony get off Orsini's case...there are prestigious backers of the program that are still behind Doh for whatever that means, otherwise Doh would have been gone by now. There are politics involved that make things 'complicated'....unfortunatly with the high level of recruits coming in next year, it will buy him some time.
In addition the recent coaching hires have made SMU more relevant on the court and should have been done earlier of course, but they look better on the floor now, offensively and defensively. They also just have a real 'soft' team on the court without the two big men that should have been eligible and would have been a big help under the basket, defensively.

one thing is for sure, they are far better coached offensively this year. They run a system that makes coming from behind, especially w/o scorers, near impossible, but they are generating good looks out of their sets. That's one of the things I absolutely needed to see this year. It's like a 5 month glorified practice/try-out. About the only other thing worth watching is whether or not Jfrog performs well enough to avoid being run off.

RGV Pony · Post by **RGV Pony** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:00 am

I still want to see OTP's suggestion take place. Late in a game when we need to file, I'd like to see JFrog jump on the back of a 6'9 guy from the opposing team and hold on, piggy-back style

EastStang · Post by **EastStang** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:52 am

I think firing Tubbs was the first step that put SMU behind an eight ball. Copeland pulled the trigger on that and we know all about the burgers and Tide accusations which were of the ticky tack variety (same as what got the Utah coach investigated by the NCAA). At that point, I think we had to overpay for a coach to come here. I am sure after the way Tubbs was treated, even a quality HS coach would have been loath to look at SMU. So, I understand the Doh hire and thought at the time it might work out. But, his performance over the last five years borders on embarrassing. There is no way to capture the Dallas market by laying a huge suck on the floor every game. Next year's recruiting class is supposed to be off the charts. I for one take that with a jaundiced eye and will wait to see if all of them make it onto the Court next fall. That class also is the quandary. Do we give Doh another year, and see what happens with this new group of supposed "greatness"? I don't know.

PonyKai · Post by **PonyKai** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:05 pm

EastStang wrote:I think firing Tubbs was the first step that put SMU behind an eight ball. Copeland pulled the trigger on that and we know all about the burgers and Tide accusations which were of the ticky tack variety (same as what got the Utah coach investigated by the NCAA). At that point, I think we had to overpay for a coach to come here. I am sure after the way Tubbs was treated, even a quality HS coach would have been loath to look at SMU.

Which is why anyone who suggests we should have fired Doherty after his third season is either incredibly ignorant of SMU basketball, or an idiot. There's a group of fans around these parts that live in fantasy land where apparently SMU can fire coaches whenever they want, for whatever reasons they want, and Bill Self will magically appear, offering to be SMU's next coach for 1.50$ a year.

ponyboy · Post by **ponyboy** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:33 pm

Lol, true.

CarMichael · Post by **CarMichael** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:30 pm

"He's a bad x's and o's guy but a fantastic face guy."

I've been following Matt's career since he was a sophomore in college.

He is a fantastic face guy, and evidence for that is SMU's recruiting gaining traction even after years of near-complete failure on the court. He was an outstanding recruiter at Davidson, Kansas, Notre Dame, and for one year at UNC (Felton, May, McCants), after which he was handicapped by probable lame-duckitude there. As you all have been saying for years, he met a wall of resistance in the DFW black community that he didn't cause and didn't expect. He appears finally to be making progress there. I imagine he has put a great deal of effort into schmoozing and "what can I do to change your mind?" stuff.

It's not correct that he is a bad x's and o's guy. He is very smart, very studious, and has worked under three of the best coaches in the game. When he was at Carolina, for example, he outwitted Roy Williams and, with a bunch of freshmen, beat a #1 ranked Kansas team by springing a new offense on them.

His weakness as a coach seems to be that he doesn't have a good feel for managing his players psychologically and getting the best out of them. I don't know whether he has gotten better at that or not, or what the current players think of him.

StallionsModelT · Post by **StallionsModelT** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:58 pm

I would say his weakness as a coach is his record.

PoconoPony · Post by **PoconoPony** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:10 pm

spacepony wrote:Poconopony you are off base this time..these really are good recruits.....according to other National Scouting sources, not just Doh. These kids are as a total group, game changers...now its up to Doh and his assistants to make them a cohesive team. Will they?.....We will have to see.
'Cotton' Giles was THE piped piper who is making it happen....the real bad [deleted] playa's are on notice.
I am not a fan of what Doh has accomplished either BTW

You missed the point which is to assess what Doh has done thus far. This program has always been full of promises and hype. You can only comment on what Doh has/has had on campus and the way they have performed. Do not fall prey to the continued hype of what may happen next year. Yes, the spin is that Doh has finally locked onto some talent, but let things play out to see who actually shows up on campus, who is actually eligible, who may fail out/leave and how quickly the staff can make the team jell. This season's team was hyped as having 3 guys coming in who were immediately ready to turn the team fortunes around. The last I checked 2 or the 3 are in limbo/not eligible and the 3d may get some playing time for the last 12 games of the season. Problem with spin, hype and newspaper clippings is that you cannot really measure the true quality of the kid until you have him eligible and actually see what he brings to the table in an environment of similar talent. There are no stop watches or tape measures for basketball players to immediately measure how they will fit in or stack up on a conference, national or international level. Only time will tell if things will improve.

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